Deportation of illegal migrants

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Other countries in the EU successfully returned migrants to other countries; using the Dublin Agreement; we just didn't use it much. We need to get closer to our friends in the EU and re-join the agreement. Our current threats to break international treaties make this pretty hard at the moment.

I'm not sure trying to change UNHCR/EHCR articles is the way to go. Having locations in Europe where asylum-seekers could apply for asylum and be accepted or declined in a timely manner seems a sensible way of reducing numbers coming in by small boats.

What's in it for France or the EU as a whole to re admit us to Dublin agreement?

You don't think this was their plan all along, knowing the law would stop this is a perfect excuse for dumping ECHR and they know a fair proportion of the country will support them, this is the party of law and order don't like or get caught out by the law, change it, break the law rewrite it, law stops your policy dump the law givers, this trend could have serious ramifications for us all in the end

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

What's in it for France or the EU as a whole to re admit us to Dublin agreement?

You don't think this was their plan all along, knowing the law would stop this is a perfect excuse for dumping ECHR and they know a fair proportion of the country will support them, this is the party of law and order don't like or get caught out by the law, change it, break the law rewrite it, law stops your policy dump the law givers, this trend could have serious ramifications for us all in the end

By doing that, they would beggar up the Good Friday Agreement…

https://committees.parliament.uk/wri...ce/23735/html/

Written evidence from the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission (HRA0044)

The NIHRC provides this submission to the Joint Human Rights Committee (JCHR) on the Independent Human Rights Act Review (IHRAR).


The NI Context

The Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement 1998 created a duty on the UK government to incorporate the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) into domestic law “with direct access to the courts, and remedies for breach of the Convention, including the power for the courts to overrule Assembly legislation on the grounds of inconsistency”.[1] This incorporation was achieved through the HRA.[2]


The continuing centrality of human rights protection and a commitment to the GFA, is evidenced through the NI protocol to the EU/UK Withdrawal Agreement. The UK government made a commitment to “no diminution of rights under the Rights, Safeguards and Equality of Opportunities” section of GFA.[3] Given the UK government’s commitment to uphold the GFA and ensure no diminution of rights, we would caution against any proposals, which diminish access to remedies for ECHR violations through reform of the HRA.


In keeping with commitments under the GFA, the ECHR is embedded into the Northern Ireland Act 1998 (NIA), with sections 6 and 24 requiring compatibility with Convention rights. While the IHRAR is not reviewing the content of the Convention rights, potential recommendations for changes to operational mechanisms may consequently affect the NIA.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Hugh

By doing that, they would beggar up the Good Friday Agreement…

https://committees.parliament.uk/wri...ce/23735/html/

It doesn't appear they've been that bothered about beggaring it up so far tbf

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

<SNIP>


But Seph, this lot are not "Conservatives" as most people with an awareness of the past would define them. They are light years away from the "One Nation" Conservatives, and those of the Thatcher & John Major eras.

I can't argue with that, Ian. Doesn't make me wrong, though.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I can't argue with that, Ian. Doesn't make me wrong, though.

I take your point about the illegal(?) disposal of identity documents making it harder to be processed but as to the exact numbers involved, that remains to be proven.

However, this whole project is not really about if those chosen have or have not documents when they get off their boats, it is, as Chris alluded to, an affront to our sense of morality & duty of care as a nation. We are just better than this.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I take your point about the illegal(?) disposal of identity documents making it harder to be processed but as to the exact numbers involved, that remains to be proven.

However, this whole project is not really about if those chosen have or have not documents when they get off their boats, it is, as Chris alluded to, an affront to our sense of morality & duty of care as a nation. We are just better than this.

It's more complex than that. Morality cuts in more than one way. It seems immoral to me that illegal migration causes the Guvmin to spend millions (c. £5m/day --> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2006820.html ) when poor citizens can't afford to buy food or travel to their medical appointments and so on.

The Guvmin's duty to the UK people also includes knowing who is entering our country. These fit young men are economic migrants (at least mainly) - and where did they get the money to pay the traffickers? What's going on there?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

It's more complex than that. Morality cuts in more than one way. It seems immoral to me that illegal migration causes the Guvmin to spend millions (c. £5m/day --> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2006820.html ) when poor citizens can't afford to buy food or travel to their medical appointments and so on.

The Guvmin's duty to the UK people also includes knowing who is entering our country. These fit young men are economic migrants (at least mainly) - and where did they get the money to pay the traffickers? What's going on there?

I’d be willing to bet that that c. £ 5m a day when calculated on a per head basis is a lot less than the estimated £500k it was going to cost to fly seven or eight people to Rwanda. Where does that sit with your view on immorality ? Considering as you say citizens can’t afford to buy food etc.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I’d be willing to bet that that c. £ 5m a day when calculated on a per head basis is a lot less than the estimated £500k it was going to cost to fly seven or eight people to Rwanda. Where does that sit with your view on immorality ? Considering as you say citizens can’t afford to buy food etc.

I think you're being shallow here. In the wider picture, if they stick 100+ illegal migrants on a flight, then the figure changes dramatically. One has to start somewhere.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I think you're being shallow here. In the wider picture, if they stick 100+ illegal migrants on a flight, then the figure changes dramatically. One has to start somewhere.

it would still be greater spend per head to fly them to Rwanda imho even at the figures you quote

---------- Post added at 20:11 ---------- Previous post was at 20:06 ----------

Please excuse the fag packet maths but £4.7m divided by approx 37,000 (iirc) so that’s £127 per day on accommodation, even adding extras on still some way to go to get it up to the cost of the flight….

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You just don't like Conservatives.

No, I just don't like this lot.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

it would still be greater spend per head to fly them to Rwanda imho even at the figures you quote[COLOR="Silver"]

.

Yes, but if the illegals cease to come here because they will end up in Rwanda, clearly the cost to us diminishes accordingly.

Up until now, it's just been an open door for those who have made the crossing.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Yes, but if the illegals cease to come here because they will end up in Rwanda, clearly the cost to us diminishes accordingly.

Up until now, it's just been an open door for those who have made the crossing.

It hasn’t been an open door at all. The figures are freely available on gov.uk

From a BBC article ;

[mrmistoffelees]

And the returns ? (The last two and a bit years returns have been skewed because of you know what)

I’m not arguing the position that attempts have increased. I’m arguing that calling it an open door is something of an over dramatisation

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Paul

From a BBC article ;

Yup, people crossing the English Channel in boats have soared in number since we forfeited the chance to return them to the EU.