Russia has invaded Ukraine

https://www.gov.pl/web/diplomacy/sta...nes-to-ukraine

The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations between the President and the Goverment, are ready to deploy – immediately and free of charge – all their MIG-29 jets to the Ramstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America.

At the same time, Poland requests the United States to provide us with used aircraft with corresponding operational capabilities. Poland is ready to immediately establish the conditions of purchase of the planes.

The Polish Government also requests other NATO Allies – owners of MIG-29 jets – to act in the same vein.

---------- Post added at 19:13 ---------- Previous post was at 19:07 ----------

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2031024.html

Ukrainians who worked at the British embassy in Kyiv are being told they will not get refuge in the UK as they seek to flee the war unless they can fulfil strict entry qualifications, The Independent has been told.

The staff, many of whom have worked at the mission for years, are believed to have been informed that they will only qualify for a visa if they have close relations in the UK.

A number of British diplomats at the embassy, which has moved to Lviv from Kyiv for safety after the start of the war, are said to be deeply unhappy at the way their Ukrainian colleagues are being treated, and have made their feelings clear to the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (FCDO) in London.

Some British staff have described what is happening as “Afghanistan part two”, and say they are astonished that lessons have not been learned from the failure to evacuate many Afghans entitled to entry to the UK after the Taliban takeover.

They also fear that some of their Ukrainian colleagues may be targets for retribution if they are in areas occupied by Russian forces.

However, when The Independent approached the department for comment, it said it was a matter for the FCDO, who then claimed it was in fact a matter for the Home Office. The Independent was referred between the two departments five times.

It is understood that the Home Office is planning to enable the Ukrainian staff members to come to Britain, but the department has revealed no detail on this.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Hugh

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2031024.html

Disgraceful! These people are the UK's friends and have served us well.

The supplying of the Polish Fighter jets to Ukraine is a risky move, that could escalate this very quickly.

Originally Posted by Hugh

The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations between the President and the Goverment, are ready to deploy – immediately and free of charge – all their MIG-29 jets to the Ramstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America.

At the same time, Poland requests the United States to provide us with used aircraft with corresponding operational capabilities. Poland is ready to immediately establish the conditions of purchase of the planes.

Ummm, you're going to have to explain this one.
What is placing "MIG-29 jets at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America." going to achieve ?

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Paul

Ummm, you're going to have to explain this one.
What is placing "MIG-29 jets at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America." going to achieve ?

This has been in the works for a couple of days, Poland gives them to the US, the US then gives them to Ukraine and and gives Poland equivalent US planes.

Poland is the first but not the last Country that will be doing this.

Why only MIGs? Because the Ukraine has an Air Force that was trained with them.

Originally Posted by pip08456

This has been in the works for a couple of days, Poland gives them to the US, the US then gives them to Ukraine and and gives Poland equivalent US planes.

Poland is the first but not the last Country that will be doing this.

Why only MIGs? Because the Ukraine has an Air Force that was trained with them.

They are Russian made and likely be easier to fly than more advanced aircraft that are a tad expensive to just pass on to inexperienced hands.

Originally Posted by pip08456

Poland gives them to the US, the US then gives them to Ukraine and gives Poland equivalent US planes.

Supplying "small" arms and anti aircraft, anti tank etc stuff is one thing.
NATO supplying war planes is a different level, this seems a very bad idea.

Originally Posted by Mick

The supplying of the Polish Fighter jets to Ukraine is a risky move, that could escalate this very quickly.

Yes.

Again, I will remind all the hysterical war-mongers among you.
This is not our war, and Im really not sure why some of you seem keen to get involved.
Wars only tend to end one way ... badly.

[Carth]

We're slowly getting sucked in

Originally Posted by Carth

Well now they can improve their lot by producing more home grown eh.

Incidentally . . how much do they export?

Like most things, it’s not that simple (difference between crude oil imports and petroleum product exports).

https://dailyenergyinsider.com/news/...ng-to-eia/?amp

Increasing crude oil imports will drive the growth in net petroleum imports in 2021 and 2022, offsetting changes in refined product net trade. Net imports of crude oil will increase from its 2020 average of 2.7 million barrels per day (b/d) to 3.7 million b/d in 2021 and 4.4 million b/d in 2022, EIA reported.

U.S. net petroleum product exports—distillate fuel oil, hydrocarbon gas liquids, and motor gasoline, among others—averaged 3.2 million b/d in 2019 and 3.4 million b/d in 2020. Net petroleum product exports will average 3.5 million b/d in 2021, and 3.9 million b/d in 2022 as global demand for petroleum products continues to increase from its recent low point in the first half of 2020.

Also, EIA said that the United States will import more crude oil to fill the widening gap between refinery inputs of crude oil and domestic crude oil production in 2021 and 2022. U.S. crude oil production declined by about 0.9 million b/d – or 8 percent — to 11.3 million b/d in 2020 because of well curtailment and a decline in drilling activity.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Mick

The supplying of the Polish Fighter jets to Ukraine is a risky move, that could escalate this very quickly.

Wonder why they're doing it now, Ukraine had the 4th largest airforce in Europe and they haven't lost that many planes so such a move, now, seems odd to me, still what do I know.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

The supplying of the Polish Fighter jets to Ukraine is a risky move, that could escalate this very quickly.

What's the risk? That Ukraine has a fighting chance? Sounds good to me! World War Three it's not.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Paul

Supplying "small" arms and anti aircraft, anti tank etc stuff is one thing.
NATO supplying war planes is a different level, this seems a very bad idea.


Yes.

Again, I will remind all the hysterical war-mongers among you.
This is not our war, and Im really not sure why some of you seem keen to get involved.
Wars only tend to end one way ... badly.

As yet I haven't seen one hysterical war monger here. There are never winners in wars only survivours. That is the bottom line.

Ukraine has the absolute right to defend itself from an unprevoked invasion and also the right to request help from anywhere be it small arms or other means.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Paul

Again, I will remind all the hysterical war-mongers among you.
This is not our war, and Im really not sure why some of you seem keen to get involved.
Wars only tend to end one way ... badly.

Whilst I can appreciate the parallels with 1938, this is not the same as 1938.

NATO is a defensive alliance. Supplying small arms etc is one thing, supplying jets is quite another.

Putin is not going to attack NATO but if we keep giving him a reason to……………

This is a bad idea.

---------- Post added at 20:20 ---------- Previous post was at 20:17 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

World War Three it's not.

It’s only not, whilst Putin decides it’s not. If he believes NATO is attacking him ( which would be a fair conclusion if NATO are supplying Ukraine jets)

Then World War 3 it could easily become.

---------- Post added at 20:23 ---------- Previous post was at 20:20 ----------

Originally Posted by pip08456

There are never winners in wars only survivours. That is the bottom line.

There may not be very many survivors from the next world war.

What was it Arthur C Clarke or Carl Sagan said. Something like. I don’t know what what weapons will be used in WW3, but the next war after that will be fought with sticks and stones.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Whilst I can appreciate the parallels with 1938, this is not the same as 1938.

NATO is a defensive alliance. Supplying small arms etc is one thing, supplying jets is quite another.

Putin is not going to attack NATO but if we keep giving him a reason to……………

This is a bad idea.

---------- Post added at 20:20 ---------- Previous post was at 20:17 ----------



It’s only not, whilst Putin decides it’s not. If he believes NATO is attacking him ( which would be a fair conclusion if NATO are supplying Ukraine jets)

Then World War 3 it could easily become.

The US would be supplying the planes, not NATO.

The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations between the President and the Government, are ready to deploy – immediately and free of charge – all their MIG-29 jets to the Ramstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America.

At the same time, Poland requests the United States to provide us with used aircraft with corresponding operational capabilities. Poland is ready to immediately establish the conditions of purchase of the planes.

https://www.gov.pl/web/diplomacy/sta...nes-to-ukraine

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by pip08456

The US would be supplying the planes, not NATO.

Same horse different jockey, like that will make a difference.

NATO country supplies planes to the biggest NATO country to give to Ukraine.

Ergo……….it’s NATO