Coronavirus

[Jaymoss]

Yeah let's keep it circulating killing off the vulnerable elderly and sick. .Top idea

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

Yeah let's keep it circulating killing off the vulnerable elderly and sick. .Top idea

I don't think you'll ever get rid of it, so in effect, it will keep circulating.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

Yeah let's keep it circulating killing off the vulnerable elderly and sick. .Top idea

In fairness to Old Boy killing off the people not immune does improve population level immunity. So the statistics behind the claim are sound.

The rest of the claim is, as ever, speculative nonsense from someone who disagreed with any kind of intervention. So why would he approve of vaccination on an ongoing basis?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

Yeah let's keep it circulating killing off the vulnerable elderly and sick. .Top idea

The Covid 19 virus is one of many respiratory diseases that can kill off those suffering with these conditions.

---------- Post added at 20:04 ---------- Previous post was at 20:02 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

In fairness to Old Boy killing off the people not immune does improve population level immunity. So the statistics behind the claim are sound.

The rest of the claim is, as ever, speculative nonsense from someone who disagreed with any kind of intervention. So why would he approve of vaccination on an ongoing basis?

Your summary of my position on this is far off the truth, jfman, but we are used to your deliberate misinterpretations. I don’t have the hours in the day to keep correcting you, so I will let you continue to have your fun. For now.

[jfman]

I’m not really sure what you mean OB. Your original stance was to let it rip. When vaccines were in development your attitude was to let it rip. Now vaccines are being deployed with waning efficacy your attitude is to give people 2/3 doses then let it rip.

A sociopathic disregard for human life and scientific achievement.

[nffc]

Originally Posted by jfman

I’m not really sure what you mean OB. Your original stance was to let it rip. When vaccines were in development your attitude was to let it rip. Now vaccines are being deployed with waning efficacy your attitude is to give people 2/3 doses then let it rip.

A sociopathic disregard for human life and scientific achievement.

I too disagree with letting it rip until it's not going to cause a large number of unmanageable hospitalisations and deaths, but it does have to be the end game.


Whenever you flatten the curve you still have to have the end result the same. So you're delaying the outcome... and delaying it... and delaying it.


Now, you can go totally all out on it like Aus and NZ do, but we saw in Aus that eventually became unworkable.


Or you can go out on it for a while, like most countries have done, and either shield or vaccinate the most at risk before opening up again in a controlled manner, yes this inevitably leads to a higher baseline of infection but gives those people immunity which is long term beneficial.


It's really Canute-style logic to suggest a virus can be stopped in its tracks by NPIs. At some point you'll get a resurgence unless everyone lives like hermits until the end of time - and that isn't really living. No solution is ideal so you just have to protect the vulnerable as much as you can and allow everyone else to get on with life.


We're over a week after the kids went back now and still day on day (compared with the same day the previous week) infections are continuing to fall, this is with everything open, and realistically we are now at the point where we would be beginning to see the effect of the little sprogs being back now, considering secondary kids were by far and away the group most affected before then, so we may well be reaching the immunity levels to stop this spreading there, which will be good.


All this with no real formal covid restrictions in England for many months, an open society, an open economy with the capability to enjoy things almost to pre-pandemic levels. Actually I think in general the countries who have been a bit less prescriptive with restrictions are now faring better. I notice Austria and Germany are struggling again, and most of Europe is now following an opposite trend to the UK. Mainly because suppression always has an exit wave and Johnson/Javid with no doubt the blessing of Whitty and Vallance decided to get this out of the way in the summer. In the long term we won't know whether this paid off but at the moment it's looking rather good.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nffc

I too disagree with letting it rip until it's not going to cause a large number of unmanageable hospitalisations and deaths, but it does have to be the end game.

You are making a point separate from the one I’m making.

My point was that vaccination on an ongoing basis will be part of managing the situation - OB’s original point that this will not be required on the basis of a dubious scientist he heard on the radio. The reality is that other countries are already recognising the need for boosters for all. Something we will presumably do once we have adequate supplies of mRNA vaccines.

Countries aren’t ordering enough for 3-4x their population so they can generously gift them to other countries. They’re making sure they have first dibs in the next round.

[nffc]

Originally Posted by jfman

You are making a point separate from the one I’m making.

My point was that vaccination on an ongoing basis will be part of managing the situation - OB’s original point that this will not be required on the basis of a dubious scientist he heard on the radio. The reality is that other countries are already recognising the need for boosters for all. Something we will presumably do once we have adequate supplies of mRNA vaccines.

Or indeed something more specific than targeting the spike protein.


I don't think we can read into the future enough to tell.


If it ends up like flu where we give vaccines to those at risk, that's manageable, and probably a worst case scenario in reality.


Maybe it will take a year or two with the existing vaccines or better vaccines to get to this point, or maybe we will have enough natural immunity, we can't tell.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nffc

Or indeed something more specific than targeting the spike protein.

I don't think we can read into the future enough to tell.

If it ends up like flu where we give vaccines to those at risk, that's manageable, and probably a worst case scenario in reality.

Maybe it will take a year or two with the existing vaccines or better vaccines to get to this point, or maybe we will have enough natural immunity, we can't tell.

There’s already data from Brazil and Iran showing that infection induced immunity doesn’t last long term.

Our (UK) Pfizer order for the second half of 2022 is 35 million doses. That’s on top of 60m ordered in April and 40m prior to that. This isn’t decision making by chance.

The US and EU orders are for billions of doses. In excess of 4 per citizen.

Originally Posted by Mad Max

I agree, it'll be an annual vaccination just like the flu jab.

It will probably be available annually, for some.
There will probably be less take-up as time goes on.

The flu is also annual because so many variations exist.
Afaik, there are less covid variants knocking about [atm].

[Dude111]

Please watch the vid before ya say its bad.....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=F37KsLA4CPI

Originally Posted by Dude111

Please watch the vid before ya say its bad.....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=F37KsLA4CPI

What on earth is it about ?
At 18+ minutes, I doubt most people are going to watch it.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

I’m not really sure what you mean OB. Your original stance was to let it rip. When vaccines were in development your attitude was to let it rip. Now vaccines are being deployed with waning efficacy your attitude is to give people 2/3 doses then let it rip.

A sociopathic disregard for human life and scientific achievement.

If you recall, the original scientific advice was to allow the virus to run through the population, a proposition that was quickly reversed when they saw how quickly it was infecting people.

At that time, the alternative would have been lockdown after lockdown after lockdown for many years, which as even you must be aware by now, serves only to slow the virus down. It does not eliminate it.

Only the immunisation programme has enabled us to use different tactics to fight the virus.

---------- Post added at 07:57 ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

You are making a point separate from the one I’m making.

My point was that vaccination on an ongoing basis will be part of managing the situation - OB’s original point that this will not be required on the basis of a dubious scientist he heard on the radio. The reality is that other countries are already recognising the need for boosters for all. Something we will presumably do once we have adequate supplies of mRNA vaccines.

Countries aren’t ordering enough for 3-4x their population so they can generously gift them to other countries. They’re making sure they have first dibs in the next round.

No, jfman, I said we MAY not need any more jabs. It depends what happens next.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

If you recall, the original scientific advice was to allow the virus to run through the population, a proposition that was quickly reversed when they saw how quickly it was infecting people.

Yet you held this flawed stance for much longer, citing without any evidence whatsoever that it may go away in the summer.

At that time, the alternative would have been lockdown after lockdown after lockdown for many years, which as even you must be aware by now, serves only to slow the virus down. It does not eliminate it.

If there is the collective will it can eliminate it as demonstrated by countries who had in their own domestic population. The absence of collective will globally, and availability of vaccines, has changed the game.

Only the immunisation programme has enabled us to use different tactics to fight the virus.

Yet even as late as October last year with a number of vaccines moving through clinical trials you retained your, purely speculative, position.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...&postcount=185

No, jfman, I said we MAY not need any more jabs. It depends what happens next.

For someone who 25% of their input into the forum is crystal ball gazing citing your speculation on the future of the television as “inevitable” I’m quite surprised how frequently said crystal ball has been faulty over Covid.

[SnoopZ]

Both my parents now have had a positive PCR test, both been double vaccinated with a booster! They're suffering cold like symptoms with a bad head, hopefully it won't get worse.