Britain outside the EU - Page 186

OLD BOY · 08-10-2021, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

I’m not even sure the point you are making, OB. Other than to seek to absolve the government of any responsibility for governing.

I have - I’m indeed at pains to stress I don’t see the value in rehashing the same debates over and over.

Perhaps there would be no cries of “we told you so” if indeed we had mitigated against foreseeable problems? If legitimate concerns of the transition - coming to fruition - weren’t dismissed as “remoaners” by those in favour that had no solutions.

I agree it won’t get anyone, anywhere. However it suits one side of the argument - the leave side - to bog everyone down in nationalistic hubris rather than own the problems arising from their haphazard implementation of one of the biggest policy shifts in any of our lifetimes.

The nationalistic hubris, as you put it, arises from the remoaners droning on about the Brexit decision and the political arguments surrounding it.

We are all fed up with this, and the way to avoid it is to accept that the decision has been made and get on with it.

Instead of gleefully pointing out that something has gone wrong each time there’s a problem, why not debate how we might resolve it? Then we can start having decent debates on this subject.

Problems occur, problems get resolved. Like the sausage wars - finally, the EU has caved.

Sephiroth · 08-10-2021, 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The nationalistic hubris, as you put it, arises from the remoaners droning on about the Brexit decision and the political arguments surrounding it.

We are all fed up with this, and the way to avoid it is to accept that the decision has been made and get on with it.

Instead of gleefully pointing out that something has gone wrong each time there’s a problem, why not debate how we might resolve it? Then we can start having decent debates on this subject.

Problems occur, problems get resolved. Like the sausage wars - finally, the EU has caved.

I read that in the Torygraph too. Then Tesco said they've sourced their sausages from with NI for years!

jfman · 08-10-2021, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The nationalistic hubris, as you put it, arises from the remoaners droning on about the Brexit decision and the political arguments surrounding it.

We are all fed up with this, and the way to avoid it is to accept that the decision has been made and get on with it.

And there’s nothing stopping them from getting on with it. The Parliamentary mandate is there. Go forth and forge this high wage, high skill economy.

Quote:

Instead of gleefully pointing out that something has gone wrong each time there’s a problem, why not debate how we might resolve it? Then we can start having decent debates on this subject.

Believe it or not OB nobody on this forum has any meaningful influence over the course of Government. I think you are giving the half dozen or so more vocal remainers on the forum far more credit than they deserve.

Nobody is stopping you debating the solutions - put ideas forward.

Quote:

Problems occur, problems get resolved. Like the sausage wars - finally, the EU has caved.

It’s not inevitable that problems get solved. Certainly not by themselves through chance or luck. It’s for politicians to develop solutions for the problems they created and who better placed than the visionaries who supported the policy.

1andrew1 · 08-10-2021, 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth

Care to explain where what I wrote was 'wrong', and give your version?

Fair cop

Agreed on Spoons but not the other two.

Next: Wants the government to be proactive on skills shortages

Quote:

In a statement, Next added: "The HGV crisis was foreseen, and widely predicted for many months. For the sake of the wider UK economy, we hope that the government will take a more decisive approach to the looming skill crisis in warehouses, restaurants, hotels, care homes, and many seasonal industries.

Iceland: Wants the government to stop blaming business and consider the accumulative problems it is facing
"

Quote:

I think no one is taking a step back and looking at the accumulative impact of all these different issues on business.

"Iceland is a relatively big company and we will get through it but of course it is not the same for a lot of smaller businesses, businesses without cash reserves.

"I think this a moment where tough rhetoric is quite simply not helpful."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58731504
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...ages-latest-vn

OLD BOY · 08-10-2021, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s for politicians to develop solutions for the problems they created and who better placed than the visionaries who supported the policy.

Exactly, which is what they are doing. We should also be coming up with our own ideas about how these problems could possibly be resolved instead of constantly carping every time a problem arises.

jfman · 08-10-2021, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Exactly, which is what they are doing. We should also be coming up with our own ideas about how these problems could possibly be resolved instead of constantly carping every time a problem arises.

Can you name any plan, just out of curiousity?

I mean a “high wage, high skill” economy doesn’t spawn itself into existence by itself. Otherwise anyone could do it.

So tell me: what’s the plan?

Carth · 08-10-2021, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

Can you name any plan, just out of curiousity?

I mean a “high wage, high skill” economy doesn’t spawn itself into existence by itself. Otherwise anyone could do it.

So tell me: what’s the plan?

Rather easy actually, thought you'd have got it . .

Minimum wage up to £22 an hour, then legislate that any job paying over £20 an hour is a highly skilled job.

Uncle Bob innit

TheDaddy · 08-10-2021, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth

Rather easy actually, thought you'd have got it . .

Minimum wage up to £22 an hour, then legislate that any job paying over £20 an hour is a highly skilled job.

Uncle Bob innit

Genius, hope this idea doesn't reach the ears of government or they'll adopt it most probably

jfman · 08-10-2021, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth

Rather easy actually, thought you'd have got it . .

Minimum wage up to £22 an hour, then legislate that any job paying over £20 an hour is a highly skilled job.

Uncle Bob innit

Haha well, I’ll credit this. High is a relative concept. You can have a high wage, high skill economy that’s got an extremely high cost of living. Nobody who lives there will thank you for it.

Sephiroth · 08-10-2021, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

Haha well, I’ll credit this. High is a relative concept. You can have a high wage, high skill economy that’s got an extremely high cost of living. Nobody who lives there will thank you for it.

Sweden?

1andrew1 · 08-10-2021, 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Sweden?

Austria too?

Sephiroth · 08-10-2021, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Austria too?

Austria VAT rate is 20%; Sweden is 25%

Income Tax regimes differ considerably so I won't go into them other than to say the Austrian regime follows similar lines to ours whereas Sweden uses a flat tax (John Redwood heaven).

**Hugh** · 08-10-2021, 22:44

Not at 57%, it isn’t…

Sephiroth · 08-10-2021, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Not at 57%, it isn’t…

That's for salaries over 537,200 SEK (52%). It's 32% up to that figure.

jfman · 08-10-2021, 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Sweden?

Do we really want to be Sweden with the public spending to GDP ratio they have? Many of our members would be physically sick at the prospect.