09-09-2021, 08:47
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#2371
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Rise above the players
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Trust relies on nations living up to the agreements they signed up to, old chap... 
Just because the Express and the Spectator say Macron hates the Brits, doesnt make it true... |
And honouring agreements means acting in the spirit of those agreements, not interpreting them in such a way that you deliberately put up barriers that puts the other side at a disadvantage.
---------- Post added at 07:47 ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
Macron's annoying and I don't like him atall but I'm not sure he hates our guts.
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No, he hates our guts. Just wait for the energy shortage we will probably face this coming winter and watch what he does with the interconnectors on which we rely.
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09-09-2021, 09:39
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#2372
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Just wait for the energy shortage we will probably face this coming winter and watch what he does with the interconnectors on which we rely.
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Even I'm not that pessimistic about Brexit, Old Boy! 
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09-09-2021, 10:05
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#2373
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
And honouring agreements means acting in the spirit of those agreements, not interpreting them in such a way that you deliberately put up barriers that puts the other side at a disadvantage.
---------- Post added at 07:47 ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 ----------
[/COLOR]
No, he hates our guts. Just wait for the energy shortage we will probably face this coming winter and watch what he does with the interconnectors on which we rely.
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And you don’t think this could be equally applied to British ‘acting in the spirit"?
"Acting in the spirit" is just an excuse used by people trying to weasel out of their responsibilities - contracts/agreements/treaties are worded to be clear and precise, and to avoid ambiguity, and if things are unambiguous, you can’t say "well, I want it to mean something different because that suits me"…
"Acting in the spirit of the agreement" does not mean taking unilateral action which breaches the Agreement.
---------- Post added at 09:05 ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
No, he hates our guts. Just wait for the energy shortage we will probably face this coming winter and watch what he does with the interconnectors on which we rely.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
Even I'm not that pessimistic about Brexit, Old Boy! |
It’s "projection" - it’s what he would do, so he assumes others would act in the same "spirit"…
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09-09-2021, 13:36
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#2374
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Re: Britain outside the EU
I don't think I've ever seen, signed, or ripped up a contract that was 'worded to be clear and precise' . . . they usually have some strange legally worded bollox in there to get you with later
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09-09-2021, 14:44
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#2375
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067
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
And honouring agreements means acting in the spirit of those agreements, not interpreting them in such a way that you deliberately put up barriers that puts the other side at a disadvantage.[COLOR="Silver"]
<snip>
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Really ?? Where's that legally defined then?
Like i said, this isn't a game of cricket.
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09-09-2021, 15:21
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#2376
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vox populi vox dei
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth
I don't think I've ever seen, signed, or ripped up a contract that was 'worded to be clear and precise' . . . they usually have some strange legally worded bollox in there to get you with later |
words like protocol 
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09-09-2021, 17:26
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#2377
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Looks like Barnier has learned something from Brexit.
Quote:
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We must regain our legal sovereignty to no longer be subject to the judgments of the CJEU or the ECHR. We will propose a referendum in September on the question of immigration.
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09-09-2021, 17:34
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#2378
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Wisdom & truth
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456
Looks like Barnier has learned something from Brexit.
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A fuller quote:
Quote:
t seems Michel Barnier has undergone something of a transformation in recent months. Gone is the starry-eyed Eurocrat who decried the 'cherry picking' of Perfidious Albion and insisted that 'the single market and its four freedoms are indivisible'. In his place stands the defender of national sovereignty, a patriotic champion of French self-interest against Big Brussels.
This new-found Euroscepticism is of course due to Barnier's decision to run for the French presidency. The former Brexit negotiator clearly thinks he can succeed where David Cameron failed, judging by his pronouncements today on the need for France to renegotiate its relationship with the EU. Barnier told members of his Republican party today that:
“We must regain our legal sovereignty in order to no longer be subject to the judgments of the CJEU or the ECHR. We will propose a referendum in September on the question of immigration.
A manifesto which, er, curiously resembles Cameron's own demands that the EU rejected in early 2016. 'Legal sovereignty' if enacted would of course mean ignoring the EU's court rulings and the Council of Europe – a proposal that prompted paroxysms of outrage when Brandon Lewis suggested similar.
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https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...xity-manifesto
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09-09-2021, 18:01
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#2379
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Barnier is after the Le Pen votes by the look of it. France has always been a more 'union of nations' kind of country compared to others within the EU
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09-09-2021, 18:14
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#2380
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth
I don't think I've ever seen, signed, or ripped up a contract that was 'worded to be clear and precise' . . . they usually have some strange legally worded bollox in there to get you with later |
Just because you didn’t understand it, doesn’t mean it wasn’t clear & precise (in legal terms).
The challenge most lay-people (myself included) have with contract wording is that certain words have very precise agreed legal definitions, defined through many court cases and precedence, which is why they are used.
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10-09-2021, 13:33
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#2381
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456
Looks like Barnier has learned something from Brexit.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx
Barnier is after the Le Pen votes by the look of it. France has always been a more 'union of nations' kind of country compared to others within the EU
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Can you imagine a politician completely changing his viewpoint on something just to be elected Leader of his country?
It couldn't happen here...
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10-09-2021, 21:48
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#2382
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
And you don’t think this could be equally applied to British ‘acting in the spirit"?
"Acting in the spirit" is just an excuse used by people trying to weasel out of their responsibilities - contracts/agreements/treaties are worded to be clear and precise, and to avoid ambiguity, and if things are unambiguous, you can’t say "well, I want it to mean something different because that suits me"…
"Acting in the spirit of the agreement" does not mean taking unilateral action which breaches the Agreement.
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Why are you continually batting for the other side, Hugh?
I believe that if one party is deliberately construing a contract in a way that was not a reasonable interpretation of what it meant, the other side is perfectly entitled to call foul.
I have already cited the example of the EU insistence that each sandwich must be separately labelled on a consignment, instead of having one label for each batch of like sandwiches. Are you trying to defend that infantile interpretation of what was supposed to have been agreed?
Too much bureaucracy kills off private enterprise. That’s why the EU is doing this.
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10-09-2021, 21:53
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#2383
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Wisdom & truth
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Why are you continually batting for the other side, Hugh?
I believe that if one party is deliberately construing a contract in a way that was not a reasonable interpretation of what it meant, the other side is perfectly entitled to call foul.
I have already cited the example of the EU insistence that each sandwich must be separately labelled on a consignment, instead of having one label for each batch of like sandwiches. Are you trying to defend that infantile interpretation of what was supposed to have been agreed?
Too much bureaucracy kills off private enterprise. That’s why the EU is doing this.
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I'm looking forward to Hugh's answer.
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10-09-2021, 22:41
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#2384
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Why are you continually batting for the other side, Hugh?
I believe that if one party is deliberately construing a contract in a way that was not a reasonable interpretation of what it meant, the other side is perfectly entitled to call foul.
I have already cited the example of the EU insistence that each sandwich must be separately labelled on a consignment, instead of having one label for each batch of like sandwiches. Are you trying to defend that infantile interpretation of what was supposed to have been agreed?
Too much bureaucracy kills off private enterprise. That’s why the EU is doing this.
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I’m straight…
Re sandwiches - I can’t find any link to sandwich-related post from you in this, or any other, thread, so I can neither confirm or deny the veracity of your statement.
However, it’s strange - when I buy a sandwich from Sainsbury’s (other supermarkets & fast food shops are available), the individual sandwich packaging contains information like
Quote:
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INGREDIENTS: Malted Bread (Fortified Wheat Flour (Wheat Flour, Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin, Thiamin), Water, Malted Wheat Flakes, Wheat Bran, Yeast, Salt, Malted Barley Flour, Emulsifiers: Mono- and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids, Mono- and Diacetyl Tartaric Acid Esters of Mono- and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids; Wheat Gluten, Malted Wheat Flour, Rapeseed Oil, Flour Treatment Agent: Ascorbic Acid; Wheat Flour, Wheat Starch), Maple Cured Smoked Bacon (18%) (Pork Belly, Maple Syrup, Sugar, Salt, Antioxidant: Sodium Ascorbate; Preservative:Sodium Nitrite), Tomatoes (17%), Lettuce (8%), Water, Rapeseed Oil, Cornflour, Pasteurised Free Range Egg Yolk, Spirit Vinegar, Sugar, Salt, Pasteurised Free Range Egg, Concentrated Lemon Juice, Black Mustard Seeds.
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and 
So they’re asking for what we already do in the U.K.?
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10-09-2021, 22:42
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#2385
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
I'm looking forward to Hugh's answer.
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Please see above - hth…
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