Britain outside the EU

[Carth]

Search on here, I'm sure you'll find a few that wanted it.

Alternatively, stick to the Govt speel . . you know, the Govt you call liars

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I can't find any credible support evidence saying that no deal was an option? There's plenty suggesting it wasn't, including from cabinet ministers at the time of May's government.

Exactly.

[Carth]

Andrew doing the seal impression again, throw him a (french) fish

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

So, the UK government were telling porkies and/or soft ?

As you continue to choose to bandy about the phrase 'enemy' Could you not consider that the phrase should be directed at the people who signed the deal from the UK side ? are they not an enemy to their country for their failure to deliver?

The no extension argument holds no water, as an extension was available however instead of seeing it as was (a viable option) we ignored it and continued to play brinkmanship.[

Nailed it.

Our negotiating strategy was more like a fish out of the water than Britain out of the EU.

As our fishermen learnt to their cost, it ended up being less fish out of the water as well.

Originally Posted by Carth

Andrew doing the seal impression again, throw him a (french) fish

Better to do a seal impression than be a sea lion…

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Back is December, you were saying that the EU blinked due to the threat of no deal from the UK;



So did the EU blink and sign up to a bad deal under threat of no deal, or did the UK? You seemed happy at the time of signing

I don't think I was happy - I reported what the ST was saying.
But yes, at the time I thought that the EU had blinked but now I don't.
Boris was stupid.

On the Macron question, here's a paywall link and a quote: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...aign=DM1442332

Emmanuel Macron has declared that Boris Johnson was “well aware” of “incoherences” in the Northern Ireland Protocol when he signed up to it, as the sausage trade row deepened on Sunday.

The French President used a press conference at the end of the three-day G7 summit in Cornwall to demand that the Prime Minister act “professionally” and respect the terms of the controversial mechanism.

That article clearly shows how stupid Boris was to sign the Withdrawal Agreement. But it also shows that Macron is the enemy, who cannot even recognise UK territorial integrity.

May ensured that the EU dictated the process whereby the WA had to be signed before they would discuss trade (notwithstanding the Article 50 provisions).

Going forward priority must be given to automated customs procedures and the establishment of equivalence (which the EU don't want to do because they are punishing us).




---------- Post added at 13:05 ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

So, the UK government were telling porkies and/or soft ?

---------- Post added at 12:41 ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 ----------



As you continue to choose to bandy about the phrase 'enemy' Could you not consider that the phrase should be directed at the people who signed the deal from the UK side ? are they not an enemy to their country for their failure to deliver?

The no extension argument holds no water, as an extension was available however instead of seeing it as was (a viable option) we ignored it and continued to play brinkmanship.

---------- Post added at 12:46 ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 ----------



I can't find any credible support evidence saying that no deal was an option? There's plenty suggesting it wasn't, including from cabinet ministers at the time of May's government.

MrM, you must surely see that I am slagging Boris off for getting us into this mess?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I don't think I was happy - I reported what the ST was saying.
But yes, at the time I thought that the EU had blinked but now I don't.
Boris was stupid.

On the Macron question, here's a paywall link and a quote: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...aign=DM1442332



That article clearly shows how stupid Boris was to sign the Withdrawal Agreement. But it also shows that Macron is the enemy, who cannot even recognise UK territorial integrity.

May ensured that the EU dictated the process whereby the WA had to be signed before they would discuss trade (notwithstanding the Article 50 provisions).

Going forward priority must be given to automated customs procedures and the establishment of equivalence (which the EU don't want to do because they are punishing us).

Boris at fault for this, May at fault for that. We either have multiple inept Tory leaders. or, a poisoned chalice which regardless of who is leader will be unable to be delivered in the manner promised.

Or, both

---------- Post added at 13:09 ---------- Previous post was at 13:05 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I don't think I was happy - I reported what the ST was saying.
But yes, at the time I thought that the EU had blinked but now I don't.
Boris was stupid.

On the Macron question, here's a paywall link and a quote: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...aign=DM1442332



That article clearly shows how stupid Boris was to sign the Withdrawal Agreement. But it also shows that Macron is the enemy, who cannot even recognise UK territorial integrity.

May ensured that the EU dictated the process whereby the WA had to be signed before they would discuss trade (notwithstanding the Article 50 provisions).

Going forward priority must be given to automated customs procedures and the establishment of equivalence (which the EU don't want to do because they are punishing us).




---------- Post added at 13:05 ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 ----------



MrM, you must surely see that I am slagging Boris off for getting us into this mess?

Sephi, I do indeed see you slagging of Boris for this. However, my point stands, this didn't have to be, there was an extension available but we chose not to use it, because 'Get Brexit Done'

Automated customs procedures are a long long way off, (UK government IT will ensure that)

Equivalence ? maybe, but then, we don't need the EU's help do we?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

So, the UK government were telling porkies and/or soft ?

---------- Post added at 12:41 ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 ----------



As you continue to choose to bandy about the phrase 'enemy' Could you not consider that the phrase should be directed at the people who signed the deal from the UK side ? are they not an enemy to their country for their failure to deliver?

The no extension argument holds no water, as an extension was available however instead of seeing it as was (a viable option) we ignored it and continued to play brinkmanship.
.

The EU was never going to bend on this, extension or no extension. The EU would have used the extra time to wear us down by any means possible.

An extension was never a viable proposition for anyone wanting the will of the people implemented.

But you know that.

[Sephiroth]

OB, the Remainers are piling in on us in total "I told you so" mode.
Schadenfreude covers it.

They even argue with me on use of the word "enemy".

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The EU was never going to bend on this, extension or no extension. The EU would have used the extra time to wear us down by any means possible.

An extension was never a viable proposition for anyone wanting the will of the people implemented.

But you know that.

How would an extension have got us a worse deal than we have at the moment?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

OB, the Remainers are piling in on us in total "I told you so" mode.
Schadenfreude covers it.

They even argue with me on use of the word "enemy".

They're still bitter about being defeated.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

How would an extension have got us a worse deal than we have at the moment?

A few more £billions into the EU coffers and no change in outcome.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The EU was never going to bend on this, extension or no extension. The EU would have used the extra time to wear us down by any means possible.

An extension was never a viable proposition for anyone wanting the will of the people implemented.

But you know that.

We'll never know for sure as an extension did not occur, we're in effect talking about a schrodingers extension. So, it may or may not have been an improvement on the current situation.

On the subject of predictions, how's your one in the Covid thread going? The one where you 'expect Boris to open up as planned' ?

---------- Post added at 14:28 ---------- Previous post was at 14:25 ----------

Originally Posted by papa smurf

They're still bitter about being defeated.

No, personally I'm just laughing at you collectively for believing it.

'No deal is better than a bad deal'
'We aren't afraid to go no deal'
'Oven baked deal'

I'm not sure if it's laughter or pity tbh

[Carth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

'No deal is better than a bad deal'
'We aren't afraid to go no deal'
'Oven baked deal'

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I can't find any credible support evidence saying that no deal was an option?

oh . . well where did that come from then? Silly boy

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

A few more £billions into the EU coffers and no change in outcome.

That contribution (we're still paying the EU, btw) would have been cancelled out by no red tape and no customs on the payroll and we stood a chance of a better deal. You could argue it was a chance of 1% or a chance of 100%.

By not giving ourselves the chance, we condemned ourselves to a 100% chance of a bad deal which just satisfied box-tickers and not business.