Sarah Everard Vigil and the Met Police

[Pierre]

I'm more concerned with the narrative and themes being pushed. especially the Meme that has the sentence "protect your daughter" crossed out and replaced with "educate your sons" it was also visible at the vigil.

I educate my sons not to murder anyone, not just women, that's pretty much taken as read. I teach my sons not to hit women and treat them with respect, and to have self respect. I would say any parent would do that.

There will be situation were boys are in abusive households and witness domestic violence - there is no guarantee they will grow up to emulate that. I was one such boy and I saw my father hit my mother and vice versa, many times. Even witnessed by mother attack my father with a kitchen knife. Never once have I ever laid hands on women, and never would.

the hashtag #not all men has been rubbished, akin to #alllivesmatter as men not getting the point.

Considering that twice as many men are murdered than women, by men and that men are far more likely to be randomly murdered, by a massive % by a man they have never met before. Perhaps men should be holding a vigil to end violence against men by men?

I would suggest that you can educate your sons as much as you want, but if they grow up to be a murdering psychopath that's probably more to do with their mental make up rather that their education.

[Sephiroth]

From what I saw on TV, the police used a degree of force pertinent to dealing with threatening and violent behaviour; wholly inappropriate towards people holding a candle in vigil for a murdered female - especially as the person charged wore the same uniform as the violent police at Clapham Common.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

From what I saw on TV, the police used a degree of force pertinent to dealing with threatening and violent behaviour; wholly inappropriate towards people holding a candle in vigil for a murdered female - especially as the person charged wore the same uniform as the violent police at Clapham Common.

I'm annoyed at the dick that sent them in, if the dick worked for me she would be bouncing down the car park on her bony arse on the way to the jobcentre.

[Sephiroth]

The Dick criticised "armchair critics" who saw her thugs (that time) kneeling on a girl's back, punching another girl and generally acting violently.

She failed to issue the right orders and her defence of the police violence is beyond unacceptable. Public outrage now crosses the bounds of "policing by consent". No doubt about that.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Considering that twice as many men are murdered than women, by men and that men are far more likely to be randomly murdered, by a massive % by a man they have never met before. Perhaps men should be holding a vigil to end violence against men by men?

I think there is a difference here though in that we're talking about two types of crime that are quite specific. I.E Sexual assault and domestic violence.

With men killing men it's often due to a multitude of reasons. One of them is knife crime and there are campaigns against that and occasionally protests. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47965184

You walk around some areas of London and you'll see special bins into which knives can be deposited and you'll see charity workers trying to raise money for anti-knife crime charities.

So there are efforts to stop men murdering men but that category is so broad that they're focusing on specific causes.

I would suggest that you can educate your sons as much as you want, but if they grow up to be a murdering psychopath that's probably more to do with their mental make up rather that their education.

I think the 'educate your sons' is less about the obvious thing of not committing an assault or murdering someone and more about behaviour that isn't violence, maybe not even technically a crime, but adds to the threat women feel in the street such as catcalling, bothering random women for a phone number on the street or otherwise being a bit of a creep.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Chris

Yes he is ... he's talking about the EU's ongoing problems with vaccine ordering and supply.

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No. You first define - or rather, prove - your assertion that an orderly event would have been even more disorganised and aggressive. Please and thank you.

Same people would have been there, in ADDITION to others.
They had the option to leave peacefully, but they chose otherwise.

Perhaps they would prefer fewer male teachers at primary level, and fewer fathers present.
Oops, they've done that. How did that work out?

This is a myth. Home Office research shows 5 per cent of men are acquitted in domestic violence cases. Meanwhile, 22 per cent of women get off.
Another myth is that domestic violence is almost exclusively perpetrated by men against women. Again, this is nonsense.
Certain crime studies show that while one in four women has suffered from abuse, one in six men has also done so.
I will never forget one woman, who was staying in my refuge, telling me, in chilling tones, ‘knives are a great leveller’.
...
In the refuge I opened in 1971, for example, of the first 100 women through the door, 62 admitted that they had also perpetrated violence against their partners.

[Hom3r]

Don't get me wrong, I believe we have a right to protest.


I was outside Parliament in late 2019 with loads of leavers, it was peaceful, yes a few people did block the street and stop traffic and were moved on (I don't know if anyone was arrested).


But there was no pandemic.


As a Son, Brother and Uncle I believe that EVERYONE should be able to walk down the street safely and not just women, but many chose to respect the law and light a candle in their window and stay safe.


But we know that people will go to places like this just to cause trouble, and if you chose to ignore the police when told to leave, then you must pay the price and have nobody to blame but yourself.


Many times in the last year have I needed to see family and my mum before she did, but the law said no, so I stayed and home and suffer by myself (Yes I do live with dad), but I do sometimes feel very lonely.

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Another Illegal gathering, but will the BBC use the word Illegal? I think not.


https://news.sky.com/story/sarah-eve...calls-12246564

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

I think there is a difference here though in that we're talking about two types of crime that are quite specific. I.E Sexual assault and domestic violence.

I am all for protesting against domestic violence, having witnessed it first hand. This was afaik not domestic violence, we are yet to be told the motive. It may or may not have been sexually motivated, we don’t know yet.

I think the 'educate your sons' is less about the obvious thing of not committing an assault or murdering someone and more about behaviour that isn't violence, maybe not even technically a crime, but adds to the threat women feel in the street such as catcalling, bothering random women for a phone number on the street or otherwise being a bit of a creep.

Of course I’m all against intimidating women and girls and creepy behaviour etc, but in regards to how young men/boys and young women/girls interact and behave a wider discussion is needed in the round. I of course will have a discussion with my boys about “no means no” etc, but it will probably be more around don’t get yourself into a stupid situation with a girl.

Demonising boys is not the way forward, and I’m. It saying everybody is, but some of the rhetoric around this is very disturbing.

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Originally Posted by nomadking

Same people would have been there, in ADDITION to others.
They had the option to leave peacefully, but they chose otherwise.

Perhaps they would prefer fewer male teachers at primary level, and fewer fathers present.
Oops, they've done that. How did that work out?

Do you have the link to that NK.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I am all for protesting against domestic violence, having witnessed it first hand. This was afaik not domestic violence, we are yet to be told the motive. It may or may not have been sexually motivated, we don’t know yet.



Of course I’m all against intimidating women and girls and creepy behaviour etc, but in regards to how young men/boys and young women/girls interact and behave a wider discussion is needed in the round. I of course will have a discussion with my boys about “no means no” etc, but it will probably be more around don’t get yourself into a stupid situation with a girl.

Demonising boys is not the way forward, and I’m. It saying everybody is, but some of the rhetoric around this is very disturbing.

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Do you have the link to that NK.

Link to what exactly?
Erin Pizzey, champion of women's rights, says radical feminist plans to let victims of domestic abuse get away with murder are an affront to morality

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Link to what exactly?
Erin Pizzey, champion of women's rights, says radical feminist plans to let victims of domestic abuse get away with murder are an affront to morality

The link to the article you quoted from, which you have just given me. Thank you.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

The link to the article you quoted from, which you have just given me. Thank you.

I note the article is over 12 years' old!

[nomadking]

How is stabbing somebody 22 times, anything but attempted murder?

Link

Mrs Singleton, from Althorpe, was jailed for six years and eight months after admitting wounding with intent.
The court heard Mrs Singleton, who was originally charged with attempted murder, attacked her husband of 25 years in the early hours of 7 September as she thought he had been cheating on her.

If he had been killed, it's much more likely there would've been a vigil for her, than for him.

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I note the article is over 12 years' old!

So what? Doesn't change the fact, that a large number of women are also violent.

Originally Posted by nomadking

How is stabbing somebody 22 times, anything but attempted murder?

Link

If he had been killed, it's much more likely there would've been a vigil for her, than for him.

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So what? Doesn't change the fact, that a large number of women are also violent.

Can you please define 'large' in this context.

Why didn't they just hold the vigil at a later date when it would have been legal? Why does a vigil have to be immediate? It's not like Sarah would have minded and would have liked her memory and passing be even more sensational. the whole issue lent no dignity to her passing.

[Sephiroth]

I think the vigil was really intended to be a message to the Police to protect them generally. A bit of a tall order right now, but Dick needs to fdraw up the plans and put it to the government if it needs funded measures.

Atm, it's not safe for women (really hasn't been since foot patrols and motor patrols ceased).

Policing by consent took a huge knock yesterday.