Britain outside the EU

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-no...ities-12229968

What are your thoughts, Andrew? I know you will try your best to be impartial...

[Sephiroth]

It could go either way, OB.

One version, based on past form (recent) might be: If we don't want to abide by a legally binding treaty, we shouldn't have signed it".

Of course, if that's what Andrew replies, he's quite right. We shouldn't have signed that treaty/deal and we should simply have left the EU,

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

What are your thoughts, Andrew? I know you will try your best to be impartial...

From my English perspective, this is the deal that the UK government signed up to. We should obviously honour it, and continue with construction. Red tape increases this March and April so we need the facilities built and the bureaucrats recruited to minimise delays between GB and NI.

But I don't live in NI and it might be politically savvy to slow construction down if the climate is not condusive.

Unfortunately, all your predictions about uninvented technologies solving the Irish border situation never came to pass.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

It could go either way, OB.

One version, based on past form (recent) might be: If we don't want to abide by a legally binding treaty, we shouldn't have signed it".

Of course, if that's what Andrew replies, he's quite right. We shouldn't have signed that treaty/deal and we should simply have left the EU,

Good call.

Leaving the EU without an NI agreement in place? This would have breached the Good Friday Agreement. WTO membership by the EU and UK would require have required a treaty-breaching hard border on the island of Ireland.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I watched a channel 4 documentary called the truth about chlorinated chicken the other day, the thing I took from it is if we let it in there is no way we couldn't drop our standards here to compete with them, the practices from handling the meat, to conditions in the factory for cleanliness and opportunities for cross contamination are not things we should tolerate here under any circumstances and that's without even mentioning how the staff are treated

The reason it was banned in the EU WASN'T because it wasn't safe, but because it WAS TOO safe. How is washing with JUST air and water, safer than washing with air AND water AND chlorinated wash? If a method is found that is even more effective than a chlorinated wash(M&S did trials using liquid air), then automatically the EU would ban it.

If the chicken plants in Poland had been allowed to use a chlorinated wash, then the food poisoning there might not have existed or been a lot less.
Link

It's not consuming chlorine itself that the EU is worried about - in fact in 2005 the European Food Safety Authority said that "exposure to chlorite residues arising from treated poultry carcasses would be of no safety concern". Chlorine-rinsed bagged salads are common in the UK and other countries in the EU.

...
Chlorine does reduce the bacteria on chicken, although by how much is disputed - the World Health Organization has highlighted that studies on the effectiveness of chlorine treatment give mixed results.


A study from the University of Southampton last year found that chlorine could make food-borne pathogens undetectable, giving lower microbial counts in testing, but without actually killing them - so they might remain capable of causing disease.

Not all food poisoning is from meat, though - although poultry is the most common cause - and not all food poisoning is down to the production process. Some bacteria will generally be left on the skin of a chicken so the care with which it's handled and cooked at home are extremely important.

The real reason for the EU ban.

Washing chicken in chlorine and other disinfectants to remove harmful bacteria was a practice banned by the European Union (EU) in 1997 over food safety concerns. The ban has stopped virtually all imports of US chicken meat which is generally treated by this process.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

From my English perspective, this is the deal that the UK government signed up to. We should obviously honour it, and continue with construction. Red tape increases this March and April so we need the facilities built and the bureaucrats recruited to minimise delays between GB and NI.

But I don't live in NI and it might be politically savvy to slow construction down if the climate is not condusive.

Unfortunately, all your predictions about uninvented technologies solving the Irish border situation never came to pass.


Good call.

Leaving the EU without an NI agreement in place? This would have breached the Good Friday Agreement. WTO membership by the EU and UK would require have required a treaty-breaching hard border on the island of Ireland.

I don't agree with you that leaving without a deal would have breached the GFA. That was EU spin, imo. It would have stirred the pot, somewhat - but no deal is not a breach. The breach would occur if the perfidious EU erected a border between the two. It really should have been chucked back to the EU to sort out.

I totally blame Mrs May as I said earlier in the thread.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

From my English perspective, this is the deal that the UK government signed up to.

It was the only deal on offer, and to my mind, the sooner we withdraw from it, the better. The more the EU turns the screws, the more likely that the Johnson government will withdraw.

The EU needs to be careful not to overplay its hand.

---------- Post added at 01:11 ---------- Previous post was at 01:08 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I don't agree with you that leaving without a deal would have breached the GFA. That was EU spin, imo. It would have stirred the pot, somewhat - but no deal is not a breach. The breach would occur if the perfidious EU erected a border between the two. It really should have been chucked back to the EU to sort out.

I totally blame Mrs May as I said earlier in the thread.

Yes, Theresa’s plan was never viable in the end. I admit to giving her the benefit of the doubt in the early days, but my judgement was misplaced.

I should have gone with my instinct. Lesson learned!

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It was the only deal on offer, and to my mind, the sooner we withdraw from it, the better. The more the EU turns the screws, the more likely that the Johnson government will withdraw.

The EU needs to be careful not to overplay its hand.

---------- Post added at 01:11 ---------- Previous post was at 01:08 ----------



Yes, Theresa’s plan was never viable in the end. I admit to giving her the benefit of the doubt in the early days, but my judgement was misplaced.

I should have gone with my instinct. Lesson learned!

Never viable? It was a non starter that tied our hands during negotiations and ended us being in the mess we are in.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It was the only deal on offer, and to my mind, the sooner we withdraw from it, the better. The more the EU turns the screws, the more likely that the Johnson government will withdraw.

The EU needs to be careful not to overplay its hand.

That's not an option without a negotiated alternative in place eg GB also joins the EU single market for manufactured goods.

---------- Post added at 10:17 ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I don't agree with you that leaving without a deal would have breached the GFA. That was EU spin, imo. It would have stirred the pot, somewhat - but no deal is not a breach. The breach would occur if the perfidious EU erected a border between the two. It really should have been chucked back to the EU to sort out.

I totally blame Mrs May as I said earlier in the thread.

WTO membership would require both the UK and EU to erect a hard border on the island of Ireland. That's a fact, not an opinion. Why on Earth did you think that Theresa May and Boris went to all this trouble to negotiate specific arrangements for Northern Ireland?

BELFAST (Reuters) - World Trade Organization (WTO) rules are clear that checks would be required between EU-member Ireland and the British province of Northern Ireland if Britain crashed out of the bloc without an exit deal, the minister for the region said on Monday.

“The fact is that the WTO is very clear that if there are two different customs territories, checks have to be able to be carried out on a contemporaneous basis on consignments passing between the two territories,” Karen Bradley told reporters.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1NO18I

[Hom3r]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I watched a channel 4 documentary called the truth about chlorinated chicken the other day, the thing I took from it is if we let it in there is no way we couldn't drop our standards here to compete with them, the practices from handling the meat, to conditions in the factory for cleanliness and opportunities for cross contamination are not things we should tolerate here under any circumstances and that's without even mentioning how the staff are treated

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

Animal husbandry in the US is among the worst in the world. Why, even if safe, would we want to promote that?

This is a red herring.


I buy all the food in my house, and I won't buy US chicken even it was 99% cheaper than British.


Consumers rule when it comes to buying, look at the sale of EU items which IIRC has plummeted by 50%+.

Because of the difficulty with consumers buying with cross-border trading, not goods in U.K. shops.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Because of the difficulty with consumers buying with cross-border trading, not goods in U.K. shops.

From my observation, and occasional discussion with fellow customers, Waitrose is seeing backlash against French products, particularly cheese and wine. I hope that's generally the case. Macron is a bad egg.

Ouef...

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

In related news, Sarkozy has just been found guilty of corruption and influence-peddling!

Sacre bleu!

[papa smurf]

pomfrit Rodney, pomfrit.