Will Scotland Leave the UK?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

But that isn’t the argument, Hugh. The argument is that there is a huge hole in the budget with the absence of the Barnett formula and all the other reasons set out above, and the SNP appear to have no idea how to fill it.

No-one is doubting that the Scots could survive on their own, but they will be much poorer as a result. The Scottish electorate need to know that before they enter their crosses.

---------- Post added at 19:46 ---------- Previous post was at 19:43 ----------



They probably wouldn’t, but they will have to pay a lot of extra dole money with all those people they’d throw out of work. And you seem to forget, Scotland will have to fund its own defence, albeit a non-nuclear defence.

Wonder if someone will blunder along and say what about our oil conveniently ignoring that a lot of the gas fields are in what would be English territorial waters and that even in the boom years it only exceeded the Barnett formula payments a couple of times

Originally Posted by Mad Max

The hatred some Scots have for England drives their support for the SNP imo.

I'd say most or a sizeable majority of Scots dislike England intensely it's the reason I'd be delighted to see them forge their own future on their own, imagine how nimble a country of that size will be

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

You’re assuming Scotland would want to spend billions on Trident, a privatised track and trace system that doesn’t work, a high speed rail network in another country... etc.

Defence spending only accounts for around a quarter of their previous deficit. Still a big gap in the deficit to be filled.

Link

Information requested
How much of the HS2 rail link budget is paid for by Scotland.

Response
The Scottish Government has not contributed any funds to the HS2 rail link budget; this is wholly funded by the UK Government.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

You’re assuming Scotland would want to spend billions on Trident, a privatised track and trace system that doesn’t work, a high speed rail network in another country... etc.

No, I am expressly not assuming any such thing.

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Wonder if someone will blunder along and say what about our oil conveniently ignoring that a lot of the gas fields are in what would be English territorial waters and that even in the boom years it only exceeded the Barnett formula payments a couple of times



I'd say most or a sizeable majority of Scots dislike England intensely it's the reason I'd be delighted to see them forge their own future on their own, imagine how nimble a country of that size will be

I don't think that's true tbh, I'm Scottish and proud to be so, I'm also British and just as proud to be, there's no doubt a lot of Scots do not like the English, but I wouldn't say it's the majority, and it's definitely not most.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I'd say most or a sizeable majority of Scots dislike England intensely it's the reason I'd be delighted to see them forge their own future on their own, imagine how nimble a country of that size will be

Having lived here 17 years I’d say you’re wrong. There is definitely a headbangers wing of the SNP that thinks life is basically a football match and they will happily scream bigotry from the safety of the terraces (or on social media) but true, intense dislike is very difficult to hide for any length of time. Most people just get on with their lives without really letting it affect them.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by jfman

You’re assuming Scotland would want to spend billions on Trident, a privatised track and trace system that doesn’t work, a high speed rail network in another country... etc.

How much does Scotland currently spend on Trident?

Originally Posted by pip08456

How much does Scotland currently spend on Trident?

He’s referring to the per-capita allocation of defence spending that is nominally attributed to Scotland in the annual GERS figures (Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland). A favourite Nat trick is to vaguely assert Scotland would do things “differently” while not really being hot on the detail. In defence, what the Nats prefer to forget is that the UK’s defence spending is not excessive for a NATO member (2% of GDP is the target) and even if an independent Scotland preferred to adopt a neutral stance similar to Ireland (not sustainable in my view, given Scotland’s oil assets, its strategic position at the entrance to the North Sea, and Russia’s penchant for probing both the air defence zone and the limit of territorial waters) then Ireland’s defence spending is actually not vastly smaller as a proportion of its GDP.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mad Max

The hatred some Scots have for England drives their support for the SNP imo.

Interesting that it has risen to much in recent years then.

What has made the English so loathsome (to some) in that time?

I don't think that it's really any more accurate a statement to say this than xenophobia and racism drive English policies on freedom of movement.

There's racists, bigots and xenophobes in any society but no real evidence of any more in Scotland than the rest of the UK.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Interesting that it has risen to much in recent years then.

What has made the English so loathsome (to some) in that time?

I don't think that it's really any more accurate a statement to say this than xenophobia and racism drive English policies on freedom of movement.

There's racists, bigots and xenophobes in any society but no real evidence of any more in Scotland than the rest of the UK.

It’s always been there. If she was still alive, I’d introduce you to my mother-in-law. Hatred for the English was in her bones. On the few occasions she invited us for dinner, I would always swap my plate for my wife’s before digging in. Just in case...

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It’s always been there. If she was still alive, I’d introduce you to my mother-in-law. Hatred for the English was in her bones. On the few occasions she invited us for dinner, I would always swap my plate for my wife’s before digging in. Just in case...

Just because xenophobia and bigotry is in your family history doesn't mean you can tar everyone else with the same brush.

Maybe she was an excellent judge of character.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

Just because xenophobia and bigotry is in your family history doesn't mean you can tar everyone else with the same brush.

Maybe she was an excellent judge of character.

OB opened the door there - though you didn't waste any time walking in!

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It’s always been there. If she was still alive, I’d introduce you to my mother-in-law. Hatred for the English was in her bones. On the few occasions she invited us for dinner, I would always swap my plate for my wife’s before digging in. Just in case...

Perhaps it was specific rather than general?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Perhaps it was specific rather than general?

I'm sure it was only in a specific and limited way.

[1andrew1]

Boris's second adviser on keeping the UK intact quits in as many weeks!

Boris Johnson's main adviser on keeping the UK together has departed, saying his position was made "untenable" by others within Downing Street.

Oliver Lewis, an ally of the prime minister's former chief adviser, Dominic Cummings, was a key part of the campaign for the UK to leave the EU.

His departure comes as the Scottish National Party is calling for another referendum on independence.

Mr Lewis was confirmed in his role just two weeks ago.

He replaced Luke Graham, a former Conservative MP.

Downing Street declined to comment on staffing matters.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56128879

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Perhaps it was specific rather than general?

Such a shame you have to resort to a personal attack rather than debate the obvious issue that the Scots dislike the English.

To answer the proposition you introduced, no, my mother in law despised the English and made no bones about it.

However many times I tried to endear myself to her, nothing really worked. I don’t think we will ever gain the friendship of the Scots. But for their own sakes, I hope they will at least accept we are better united than as competitors.