UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

[Mad Max]

UK fleet catches a lot of herring, 93% of which is exported, mostly to Norway and the Netherlands.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Chris

I was unaware that our entire fishing export landed in France. Do please elaborate.

The thing about exports is they usually have to go via ports/airports. If some French rotters block the roads from these places then that's an issue.We can catch all the fish we want but if we can't sell or it has tariffs applied then its a bit pointless. The British don't eat the fish, we're too fond of McDonalds/KFC.

If you need a fuller explanation please let me know

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Any kind of co-operation goes out of the window if we go up against an EU state. Talk of the Royal Navy is just to keep the more zealous Brexiters on board. Realistically, it's a hollow threat.

Fisheries protection is a civil matter and it goes on all year round come what may. Even within the EU there are rules to be enforced. Military assistance will add a symbolic dimension to the work the fisheries patrol already does and will continue to do. It won’t make a vast difference in terms of number of ships available seeing as the UK EEZ is huge, especially as it extends into the Atlantic Ocean north and west of Ireland. However, if one of the RN vessels comes across a French boat visiting its lobster pots it will have to act. I agree that would represent an escalation in symbolic terms at least, however it is a dangerous precedent indeed for any country not to defend its home territory and it is a dangerous misrepresentation of such defence to characterise it as ‘going up against’ another state.

---------- Post added at 19:55 ---------- Previous post was at 19:48 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

The thing about exports is they usually have to go via ports/airports. If some French rotters block the roads from these places then that's an issue.We can catch all the fish we want but if we can't sell or it has tariffs applied then its a bit pointless. The British don't eat the fish, we're too fond of McDonalds/KFC.

If you need a fuller explanation please let me know

Yes, yes I would please if that’s ok. If you could further explain how successful French fishermen have historically been at blocking access to Rotterdam and Antwerp that would be great. Also the channel tunnel if you have time.

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by Chris

Fisheries protection is a civil matter and it goes on all year round come what may. Even within the EU there are rules to be enforced. Military assistance will add a symbolic dimension to the work the fisheries patrol already does and will continue to do. It won’t make a vast difference in terms of number of ships available seeing as the UK EEZ is huge, especially as it extends into the Atlantic Ocean north and west of Ireland. However, if one of the RN vessels comes across a French boat visiting its lobster pots it will have to act. I agree that would represent an escalation in symbolic terms at least, however it is a dangerous precedent indeed for any country not to defend its home territory and it is a dangerous misrepresentation of such defence to characterise it as ‘going up against’ another state.

---------- Post added at 19:55 ---------- Previous post was at 19:48 ----------



Yes, yes I would please if that’s ok. If you could further explain how successful French fishermen have historically been at blocking access to Rotterdam and Antwerp that would be great. Also the channel tunnel if you have time.

[1andrew1]

Hopefully Boris will see sense. But for now

Brexit: No trade deal unless 'substantial shift' from EU, UK says

There will be no post-Brexit trade deal between the UK and EU unless there is a "substantial shift" from Brussels in the coming days, a government source has told the BBC.

It is understood there is likely to be a decision before Christmas on whether or not a deal can be reached.

The two sides have been in negotiations about how many years it will take to phase in new fisheries arrangements.

But an EU source said this was not the only remaining issue left to resolve.

"Talks are stuck," they said.

"Not just fish. The UK has other demands and the level playing field is not sorted."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55381322

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Hopefully Boris will see sense. But for now

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55381322

Boris is seeing sense. It just doesn't fit your "roll over and accept" stance.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by pip08456

Boris is seeing sense. It just doesn't fit your "roll over and accept" stance.

We'll find out soon enough either way.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Hopefully Boris will see sense. But for now

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55381322

Or perhaps, hopefully the EU will see sense. I believe he has correctly understood what was the essence of the Brexit vote and is pursuing it. The EU on the other hand is hoping for precisely the sort of fold you want Boris to make.

There is a deal to be done, but until the EU takes the difficult intellectual step of accepting a member state has left the union and that this entails its full resumption of sovereign control over its territory and affairs, then that deal cannot be done. They have only days left to turn this around.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Chris

Or perhaps, hopefully the EU will see sense. I believe he has correctly understood what was the essence of the Brexit vote and is pursuing it. The EU on the other hand is hoping for precisely the sort of fold you want Boris to make.

There is a deal to be done, but until the EU takes the difficult intellectual step of accepting a member state has left the union and that this entails its full resumption of sovereign control over its territory and affairs, then that deal cannot be done. They have only days left to turn this around.

Agree that there is a deal to be done.

Foremost, the EU needs to protect the Single Market. So if the UK wants tariff-free access, which some Brexiters still believe the UK is automatically entitled to; courtesy of British exceptionalism; then some form of level playing field agreement does not look unreasonable.

Fishing rights should be solvable. UK fishermen have woken up to their EU markets effectively ending with no deal so should be willing to accept a phased approach here.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Agree that there is a deal to be done.

Foremost, the EU needs to protect the Single Market. So if the UK wants tariff-free access, which some Brexiters still believe the UK is automatically entitled to; courtesy of British exceptionalism; then some form of level playing field agreement does not look unreasonable.

Fishing rights should be solvable. UK fishermen have woken up to their EU markets effectively ending with no deal so should be willing to accept a phased approach here.

The EU are not offering a phased approach tough. They seem to think they still have control of a sovereign countries waters.

Meanwhile French fishermen have woken up that they may no longer have access to British waters.

[1andrew1]

There's sound environmental reasons why these talks need to succeed.

Fish stocks could collapse if UK-EU talks break down

Fish stocks in British waters could suffer or even collapse if forthcoming negotiations between the UK and the EU fail to reach an agreement, according to research at the University of Strathclyde.

The study found that unilaterally-set fishing quotas could also lead indirectly to declines in the numbers of cetaceans – including dolphins and porpoises – and seabirds.

https://www.strath.ac.uk/whystrathcl...alksbreakdown/

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

There's sound environmental reasons why these talks need to succeed.

https://www.strath.ac.uk/whystrathcl...alksbreakdown/

Sorry, but what the what now?

No mathematical model can predict political decisions. All it can do in this case is predict fish stocks based on different fishing patterns. Attempting to use these models in the way the university has done is inherently political because it has had to make political assumptions in deciding which models to run and how to report the data (which it has done in a press release that has clearly taken a political stance on the issue).

The tragedy here is that the uneducated will look at this and go 'ooo science' without being able to see the blatantly political way the science is being exploited.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Chris

Sorry, but what the what now?

No mathematical model can predict political decisions. All it can do in this case is predict fish stocks based on different fishing patterns. Attempting to use these models in the way the university has done is inherently political because it has had to make political assumptions in deciding which models to run and how to report the data (which it has done in a press release that has clearly taken a political stance on the issue).

The tragedy here is that the uneducated will look at this and go 'ooo science' without being able to see the blatantly political way the science is being exploited.

I think the part in bold could apply to more than fishing & Brexit

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Agree that there is a deal to be done.

Foremost, the EU needs to protect the Single Market. So if the UK wants tariff-free access, which some Brexiters still believe the UK is automatically entitled to; courtesy of British exceptionalism; then some form of level playing field agreement does not look unreasonable.

Fishing rights should be solvable. UK fishermen have woken up to their EU markets effectively ending with no deal so should be willing to accept a phased approach here.

The UK is offering a phased approach which doesn't suit the EU.

Why do you speak for the EU (though you'll deny it)?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Foremost, the EU needs to protect the Single Market. So if the UK wants tariff-free access, which some Brexiters still believe the UK is automatically entitled to; courtesy of British exceptionalism;

What bollocks, nobody believes we are “entitled” and it is nothing to do with “British exceptionalism” which I haven’t seen any evidence of. There’s been plenty of EU exceptionalism however.

We just want a deal based on trade and equivalence of product standards, which is what you expect from a trade deal.

The EU are adding a political dimension to it, and it has bugger all with protecting the “single market” and everything to do with control and anti-competition. The EU is the biggest protectionist outfit on the planet.

some form of level playing field agreement does not look unreasonable.

Yes it does. We can agree not to lessen standards from this point, but if we want to diverge away from EU legislation in the future it is reasonable and correct, as long as our product is still has equivalence. What the EU want is anti-competitive.

Fishing rights should be solvable. UK fishermen have woken up to their EU markets effectively ending with no deal so should be willing to accept a phased approach here.

Why, don’t EU residents eat fish?

If they don’t buy our fish, I can see the headlines already as EU seafood restaurants hike prices or go out of business because they can’t get enough fish and Atlantic Shrimp.

Don’t be daft.