Coronavirus

[RichardCoulter]

Seems that even a pandemic isn't enough to stop the gravy train:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...-paid-22847372

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Dunning-Kruger Effect in action...

[Julian]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Agreed.

Trouble is, the moral tone has been set on high by the likes of Margaret Ferrier and Dominic Cummings.

Wow that was super quick to mention cummings.

Talk about whataboutery

Pathetic

If brain dead idiots can claim to be influenced by cummings then we are all screwed

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Julian

Wow that was super quick to mention cummings.

Talk about whataboutery

Pathetic

If brain dead idiots can claim to be influenced by cummings then we are all screwed

If Government, politicians, advisers (scientific or political) are standing there asking people to act in good faith it’s correct to identify incidents that erode public trust. Far from “whataboutery” it indicates the scale of the problem. Whoever you support you can point the finger at someone on the other side. Then you get “they’re all as bad as each other”. It becomes distrust in the institution of the state itself..

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

If Government, politicians, advisers (scientific or political) are standing there asking people to act in good faith it’s correct to identify incidents that erode public trust. Far from “whataboutery” it indicates the scale of the problem. Whoever you support you can point the finger at someone on the other side. Then you get “they’re all as bad as each other”. It becomes distrust in the institution of the state itself..

If those individuals hadn't done whatever, people would've still completely ignored any rules, laws etc.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

If those individuals hadn't done whatever, people would've still completely ignored any rules, laws etc.

Keep telling yourself that.

I suspect this is more a postponement despite the report that Level 3 has been shelved for Manchester

Boris Johnson shelves plan to force Manchester into harshest tier 3 lockdown.
Impasse is huge setback for the prime minister - adding to the impression that local leaders have been given a veto.
A dramatic meeting began with a health minister insisting Greater Manchester would move into tier 3, but negotiations broke down when she admitted no more money was on offer.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1043898.html

But Lancashire expected to says yes to tier 3.

Lancashire is likely to be announced as the latest area to move into Tier 3 of England's lockdown restrictions, Sky News understands.

Discussions between Westminster and local leaders around the financial package are still ongoing but the decision is expected to be announced within hours.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...kdown-12105216

[Mad Max]

The day is fast approaching when the majority of unaffected people are going to say, **** this, let me live my life and support my family, there are way too many people losing their jobs/livelihoods for the (unfortunate few) that will die from this virus, don't get me wrong, but if no vaccine is forthcoming what else do we do?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mad Max

The day is fast approaching when the majority of unaffected people are going to say, **** this, let me live my life and support my family, there are way too many people losing their jobs/livelihoods for the (unfortunate few) that will die from this virus, don't get me wrong, but if no vaccine is forthcoming what else do we do?

The majority of unaffected people working from home aren’t going to proactively and regularly put themselves at risk when that day comes. They’ll be quite content saving a few grand a year on their commute to central London.

People can’t magic themselves into jobs that don’t exist, or customers from nowhere. All your scenario brings is a lot of angry people, a lot of infected people and some deaths. Which will inform the decision making (consumption habits) of some groups to behave in a risk adverse way. Others portray this as binary - hiding under the stairs or behaving normally. It isn’t. But how much people spend (and where they spend it) will have altered in an irreversible way.

Three groups of consumers - those at risk who would shield, those fully or partially working at home, and unfortunately those whose employment circumstances have changed can’t/won’t start acting like it’s 2019 because they get bored.

Fundamentally there’s a lot of jobs that simply won’t come back even if people did start revolting. Which is why it needs leadership and a strategic economic response instead of bean counting from people under the false apprehension that we have any intention of repaying £2 trillion of debt.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

I'll explain it simply.

I borrow £100 from Mick for 10 years. Interest is £1 a year (which I pay each year), however inflation reduces the real terms value of my debt by £2 a year.

In 2030 I borrow £100 (which is only worth £80 in 2020 prices) to repay Mick from Paul and carry out the same wheeze.

Rinse and repeat until by 2070 I'm looking around for the 2020 equivalent of about £25 to repay Maggy., Who I borrowed from in 2060. The debt has cost me £10 each decade to maintain. Total cost less than total borrowed in real terms.

Obviously interest rates and inflation are percentages but the principle applies where inflation exceeds interest rates - which is pretty much going to be forever now because we can't afford the house price crash bringing the whole pozni scheme down.

Yes, I get that, jfman. But we still have to pay back the instalments for those debts in the meantime, which have increased massively with the increased borrowing.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Yes, I get that, jfman. But we still have to pay back the instalments for those debts in the meantime, which have increased massively with the increased borrowing.

Have the amounts paid year on year increased massively as you claim?

Interest rates are at an all time low. The cost of debt has never been cheaper. Government debt generally isn’t paid in instalments the way a household loan is. As demonstrated the erosion in the real terms value of the debt by inflation incentivises the Government to never repay the debt - simply kick it down the road with further borrowing.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Have the amounts paid year on year increased massively as you claim?

Interest rates are at an all time low. The cost of debt has never been cheaper. Government debt generally isn’t paid in instalments the way a household loan is. As demonstrated the erosion in the real terms value of the debt by inflation incentivises the Government to never repay the debt - simply kick it down the road with further borrowing.

I don’t know about the instalments. Certainly, if our obligation is just to pay the debt at a fixed interest rate at the end of the period, it would be, as you intimate, a good ruse.

Let’s just hope interest rates remain low, then.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

it’s correct to identify incidents that erode public trust. .

that's pretty much every decision the government has taken since the onset of the second ripple

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

that's pretty much every decision the government has taken since the onset of the second ripple

Some would say it goes back much further than that.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mad Max

The day is fast approaching when the majority of unaffected people are going to say, **** this, let me live my life and support my family, there are way too many people losing their jobs/livelihoods for the (unfortunate few) that will die from this virus, don't get me wrong, but if no vaccine is forthcoming what else do we do?

I've said it many times, we are governed and policed by consent of the people. Once you lose that you lose everything. I'm not suggesting a revolution or anything near that, but you can bet your bottom dollar there would be civil unrest and more anti-lockdown protests.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I've said it many times, we are governed and policed by consent of the people. Once you lose that you lose everything. I'm not suggesting a revolution or anything near that, but you can bet your bottom dollar there would be civil unrest and more anti-lockdown protests.

The problem is how do you get just enough revolution to stop lockdown measures when many are in favour of restrictions.

Could be easily hijacked by the left, antifa, unions. Could be a great spectacle really, but not a desirable outcome for the right.

Those in low paid, precarious work want increased rights. They don't want their health put at risk.