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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
You’re wasting your breath it doesn’t matter what the evidence says some are firmly in the letting old/vulnerable die is a price worth laying for a few points on the stock exchange.
Old Boy in fact still hasn’t answered my question of whether he’d support 50% of the workforce continuing to work from home, as per Sweden?
In fairness to Pierre he came back straight away in support of working from home, even post covid, as more sustainable in the future.
Stop misrepresenting those of us that believe we need to change tack, jfman. My strap line makes my position clear, so even with your dodgy memory, it should be possible for you to retain the information that I have said throughout that the vulnerable should be shielded, not killed off as you keep claiming.
Lockdowns don’t work. I don’t know how many times we have to do this before you finally admit that you are wrong.
You are trying to turn the whole argument around to your warped view that people in business don’t matter. You ignore the fact that every business that fails creates more unemployment and more misery for families struggling to make ends meet.
What has working at home got to do with your argument? Clearly, this is a balancing act and I have always taken the view that working at home should be embraced more. However, we also need to be cognisant of those in the catering industry, who will go out of business if they don’t get back their custom from office workers.
There are no easy solutions to this. Hopefully there will be a vaccine, but I fear that we will be waiting for longer than some people expect.
To be as clear as I can be, what should be done is as follows:
1. Cease all lockdowns and let the virus travel freely amongst the healthy population.
2. Advise the vulnerable and elderly to shield, but do not make it mandatory. Provide guidelines to assist them and their families to understand what is being recommended. Advise against family members visiting vulnerable relations unnecessarily. Ensure that grocery delivery slots are available and ensure council staff with their volunteers are available to help those who cannot organise this for themselves.
3. Lockdown the care homes, stop agency workers working for multiple establishments and have an isolation area for new residents and those suspected of having the virus. All hospital discharges of vulnerable patients should be subject to a coronavirus test.
4. Sporting events should be re-opened and all restrictions on weddings, funerals, pubs, restaurants and the like relaxed.
5. Get the NHS and dental surgeries back to normal ASAP, by resuming the services that have ceased. The deaths and sheer misery that have been caused by closing down these services is totally unacceptable.
If this is done properly, the COVID deaths we can expect this winter should be no more than we would normally expect in from flu in a year. And that, my good man, is unavoidable.
Definition
Panel member Nisreen Alwan (box 1) began the discussion by defining long covid as “not recovering [for] several weeks or months following the start of symptoms that were suggestive of covid, whether you were tested or not.”
---------- Post added at 10:33 ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 ----------
How you enforce misbehaviour is another debate.
To better understand the impact of each relaxation, doing them all at the same time won't help us understand things.
Understand what exactly? Activity X isn't somehow better than activity Y. In one area an infected person may do X and not Y, whilst in another area, an infected person may do Y and not X. No knowledge gained.What needs to be understood is, how is the virus still doing the "rounds".
The spreading is going on before any relaxation of anything. It has to be passed from one person to another, and another, in a chain of infections. It's not something that lays dormant for months on end. There are only short windows of opportunity for it to be passed on to somebody else.
BBC treats Covid like a second Great Plague – its coverage is suspiciously anti-Boris
every BBC bulletin is loaded with the latest twists and turns on a virus which is already a spent force — including its twice-a-night “bring out your dead” tally of casualties, now statistically tiny.
In wartime — which, in a non-military sense, is where we are — their coverage would be considered defeatist, a threat to the nation’s moral fibre.
__________________
To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
BBC treats Covid like a second Great Plague – its coverage is suspiciously anti-Boris
every BBC bulletin is loaded with the latest twists and turns on a virus which is already a spent force — including its twice-a-night “bring out your dead” tally of casualties, now statistically tiny.
In wartime — which, in a non-military sense, is where we are — their coverage would be considered defeatist, a threat to the nation’s moral fibre.
Understand what exactly? Activity X isn't somehow better than activity Y. In one area an infected person may do X and not Y, whilst in another area, an infected person may do Y and not X. No knowledge gained.What needs to be understood is, how is the virus still doing the "rounds".
The spreading is going on before any relaxation of anything. It has to be passed from one person to another, and another, in a chain of infections. It's not something that lays dormant for months on end. There are only short windows of opportunity for it to be passed on to somebody else.
Stop misrepresenting those of us that believe we need to change tack, jfman. My strap line makes my position clear, so even with your dodgy memory, it should be possible for you to retain the information that I have said throughout that the vulnerable should be shielded, not killed off as you keep claiming.
Lockdowns don’t work. I don’t know how many times we have to do this before you finally admit that you are wrong.
You are trying to turn the whole argument around to your warped view that people in business don’t matter. You ignore the fact that every business that fails creates more unemployment and more misery for families struggling to make ends meet.
What has working at home got to do with your argument? Clearly, this is a balancing act and I have always taken the view that working at home should be embraced more. However, we also need to be cognisant of those in the catering industry, who will go out of business if they don’t get back their custom from office workers.
There are no easy solutions to this. Hopefully there will be a vaccine, but I fear that we will be waiting for longer than some people expect.
To be as clear as I can be, what should be done is as follows:
1. Cease all lockdowns and let the virus travel freely amongst the healthy population.
2. Advise the vulnerable and elderly to shield, but do not make it mandatory. Provide guidelines to assist them and their families to understand what is being recommended. Advise against family members visiting vulnerable relations unnecessarily. Ensure that grocery delivery slots are available and ensure council staff with their volunteers are available to help those who cannot organise this for themselves.
3. Lockdown the care homes, stop agency workers working for multiple establishments and have an isolation area for new residents and those suspected of having the virus. All hospital discharges of vulnerable patients should be subject to a coronavirus test.
4. Sporting events should be re-opened and all restrictions on weddings, funerals, pubs, restaurants and the like relaxed.
5. Get the NHS and dental surgeries back to normal ASAP, by resuming the services that have ceased. The deaths and sheer misery that have been caused by closing down these services is totally unacceptable.
If this is done properly, the COVID deaths we can expect this winter should be no more than we would normally expect in from flu in a year. And that, my good man, is unavoidable.
How would you lockdown a care home? Consider that staff have to be able to enter the care home to look after residents. Relaxing the lockdown creates greater risk of staff contracting the virus, if they're asymptomatic they go to work they then transmit the virus to potential multiple residents. what happens if those residents then go to hospital? potential asymptomatic or symptomatic transmission would run rife.
What you are proposing would basically bring the NHS to it's knees.
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Nerves of steel, heart of gold, knob of butter......
How would you lockdown a care home? Consider that staff have to be able to enter the care home to look after residents. Relaxing the lockdown creates greater risk of staff contracting the virus, if they're asymptomatic they go to work they then transmit the virus to potential multiple residents. what happens if those residents then go to hospital? potential asymptomatic or symptomatic transmission would run rife.
What you are proposing would basically bring the NHS to it's knees.
For Old Boy that last line is probably the plan. Increased privatisation.
5. Get the NHS and dental surgeries back to normal ASAP, by resuming the services that have ceased. The deaths and sheer misery that have been caused by closing down these services is totally unacceptable.
The NHS and dentists are back to normal now aren't they?
How would you lockdown a care home? Consider that staff have to be able to enter the care home to look after residents. Relaxing the lockdown creates greater risk of staff contracting the virus, if they're asymptomatic they go to work they then transmit the virus to potential multiple residents. what happens if those residents then go to hospital? potential asymptomatic or symptomatic transmission would run rife.
What you are proposing would basically bring the NHS to it's knees.
I work in the healthcare sector and most care homes are in lockdown and have been for considerable time, when the countrywide lockdown was removed, care homes were not, relative visits were heavily restricted, they had to phone prior to a visit to book a visiting slot of half n hour and visits were confined to communal gardens, the relative had to be alone and they are not allowed to hug or touch their relative.
Now there are local lockdowns all over the place, care homes have gone in to full lock downs again, no visitors at all. Obviously homes cannot shut down to the staff, someone has to look after the residents.
Staff have to wear facemasks throughout their shift, any resident displaying symptoms is temperature checked, put in to isolation and tested.
Care staff are tested weekly, all positive cases follow isolation procedures.
Far from it. If you had health issues, you’d know. It’s an absolute mess.
Obviously these health conditions would be co- morbidities with Covid. Having them turn up at GP surgeries with every idiot and their dog with a cough, petre dish child, or other ailment probably not the best idea right now.
I was asking the question. Is it mainly GP's surgeries that haven't returned to normal service?
Although there are discussions currentley underway to get Dentists back to work as normal it isn't as easy as it seems.
My Dentist is hoping to resume a full servise in the near future but the logistics of being able to ptotect the other dentists, dental nurses, other staff and the patients is proving logistically difficult and a very costly exercise.
NHS dentist are for the most part still only able to carry out basic examinations. At the moment full PPE , waiting rooms only used if full social distancing can be applied, major cleansing of the treatment room after each patient and no drilling or use of the water jets. If emergency treatment is needed the NHS will still have to refer patients to an Emergency Dentist that can undertake the treatment they need if their dentist hasn't managed to comply with all the guidelines
My dentist can carry out checkups,X-rays and prescribe antibiotics if needed but can not yet undertake the corrective treatments, in my case a crown spit fron top to bottom 2 days after the Dentists were told to shut up shop in March.
There are dentists in the private sector working but they charge far higher rates than those working with NHS patients.
If you want to go crosseyed trying to make sense of the latest guidelines have a look at this COVID-19: Guidance for the remobilisation of services within health and care settings.
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What needs to be understood is, how is the virus still doing the "rounds".
