UK Intelligence report in to Russian interference in UK Elections/Scottish Referendum

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

So your "theoretically" is not based in reality? I thought we were meant to be discussing something that is meant to have actually happened.

More than just theoretically, a lot of different people try to hack X, Y, Z. Just look at the number of phishing attempts. Doesn't mean state involvement. Still no evidence of anybody doing anything much more than putting forward a viewpoint.

It is when the Remain side try to prevent Brexit meetings or stifle comment that people should be worried about. Open free speech is dead and buried. Just look at "cancel culture". Every day people are being fired or forced to quit, just because they have the "wrong" non-approved opinions.
Link

With Brexit, it wasn't case of a 80% or even 60%, in favour of remaining, mysteriously turning into a Brexit win. The very reason for the referendum was that the 2 sides were close in numbers for a long time. Was Russia "interfering" for that "long time"?

I doubt the report's authors are going to reveal in extensive detail how they know these things, but why do you chose to take the Russian viewpoint over the UK?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I doubt the report's authors are going to reveal in extensive detail how they know these things, but why do you chose to take the Russian viewpoint over the UK?

I'm not taking Russia's or anybody else's viewpoint on this or anything else. You would have thought that they could easily explain an actual example of something that occurred. Whatever is supposed to have occurred must be publicly known, in that it's meant to have influenced the public. They don't necessarily need to say how they are supposed to know who was responsible. Remote telepathic mind control is just something from science fiction.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by nomadking

I'm not taking Russia's or anybody else's viewpoint on this or anything else. You would have thought that they could easily explain an actual example of something that occurred. Whatever is supposed to have occurred must be publicly known, in that it's meant to have influenced the public. They don't necessarily need to say how they are supposed to know who was responsible. Remote telepathic mind control is just something from science fiction.

Powerful people can always get their names suppressed.

The fact the Govt. are dismissing this report already makes them complicit Russia's interference. Trouble is the Russians now have carte blanche to interfere where the Govt don't want.

What sanctions are we going to take ? Yet another country we can't/won't trade with ? We're now even a tinier fish in a massive sea, with no influence but weak to influence from others. Our World super power days are long gone, the only power we did have was that we were part of the largest trading bloc in the World, no more.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Powerful people can always get their names suppressed.

The fact the Govt. are dismissing this report already makes them complicit Russia's interference. Trouble is the Russians now have carte blanche to interfere where the Govt don't want.

What sanctions are we going to take ? Yet another country we can't/won't trade with ? We're now even a tinier fish in a massive sea, with no influence but weak to influence from others. Our World super power days are long gone, the only power we did have was that we were part of the largest trading bloc in the World, no more.

Wow aint you a sad advertisement for the EUSSR.

And on the subject of fish [tiny or otherwise] the Eu hasn't got any but we have an abundance, still let them eat cake eh.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Wow aint you a sad advertisement for the EUSSR.

And on the subject of fish [tiny or otherwise] the Eu hasn't got any but we have an abundance, still let them eat cake eh.

Thing is, those those that wanted us out of the 'EUSSR' are quite happy the former USSR, to further weaken us by helping us to split from other nations. What might their motivation be?

(And I don't like fish....).

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Powerful people can always get their names suppressed.

The fact the Govt. are dismissing this report already makes them complicit Russia's interference. Trouble is the Russians now have carte blanche to interfere where the Govt don't want.

What sanctions are we going to take ? Yet another country we can't/won't trade with ? We're now even a tinier fish in a massive sea, with no influence but weak to influence from others. Our World super power days are long gone, the only power we did have was that we were part of the largest trading bloc in the World, no more.

What has getting "names suppressed" got to do with it. All I'm asking for, is examples of the supposed actual actions of Mr X, Mr Y, Mr Z, etc. How can anybody be expected to investigate or comment on actions that nobody seems to be aware of. Eg If you've been burgled, you may not know who by, but you will see the disturbance and the missing items. If you went and said X burgled somebody, then it's not unreasonable to ask the when, where, and what in relation to it. If there is nothing missing and no signs of a disturbance, it's not unreasonable to say that the allegations against X are spurious and without foundation.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Thing is, those those that wanted us out of the 'EUSSR' are quite happy the former USSR, to further weaken us by helping us to split from other nations. What might their motivation be?

(And I don't like fish....).

It all seems rather fishy to me!

---------- Post added at 10:18 ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

What has getting "names suppressed" got to do with it. All I'm asking for, is examples of the supposed actual actions of Mr X, Mr Y, Mr Z, etc. How can anybody be expected to investigate or comment on actions that nobody seems to be aware of. Eg If you've been burgled, you may not know who by, but you will see the disturbance and the missing items. If you went and said X burgled somebody, then it's not unreasonable to ask the when, where, and what in relation to it. If there is nothing missing and no signs of a disturbance, it's not unreasonable to say that the allegations against X are spurious and without foundation.

I think this is where you have to put your trust in British institutions and not the doubts sewn in your head by less democratic nations. It may be a leap of faith but I encourage you to do it.

[pip08456]

Everythig seems fishy to you Andrew.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by pip08456

Everythig seems fishy to you Andrew.

except fish

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

except fish

No, it's Mr K that doesn't like fish, Andrew hasn't expessed a preference.

Originally Posted by Mr K

Powerful people can always get their names suppressed.

The fact the Govt. are dismissing this report already makes them complicit Russia's interference. Trouble is the Russians now have carte blanche to interfere where the Govt don't want.

What sanctions are we going to take ? Yet another country we can't/won't trade with ? We're now even a tinier fish in a massive sea, with no influence but weak to influence from others. Our World super power days are long gone, the only power we did have was that we were part of the largest trading bloc in the World, no more.

Absolute rubbish as usual. Sick of telling you. The world is a much larger trading window, than being in a corrupt union where vast sums were exchanged for the very little privileges of being in it. You and others are democracy deniers, if more people voted to leave, than that won the vote.

Note to all: this thread is not for the usual arguments about leaving the EU.

[Carth]

I'm with Nomadking on this, I haven't seen or heard a single instance that shows any actual proof of anything by anyone.

Lots of whispering, gesticulating, nudge nudge, what if type of crap circulating on the social media platforms, farcebook and twitter banning lots of 'fake' accounts etc, but nothing that shows me a direct line to a Russian telling me how to vote.

I do recall lots of bumf from political parties telling me how I should vote, maybe they're all Russian backed?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Carth

I'm with Nomadking on this, I haven't seen or heard a single instance that shows any actual proof of anything by anyone.

Lots of whispering, gesticulating, nudge nudge, what if type of crap circulating on the social media platforms, farcebook and twitter banning lots of 'fake' accounts etc, but nothing that shows me a direct line to a Russian telling me how to vote.

I do recall lots of bumf from political parties telling me how I should vote, maybe they're all Russian backed?

Project fear was probably the russians

[Kushan]

Originally Posted by Mick

And yet you have no issue with Obama helping your side with his threat, I will give you a clue, that was Foreign interference too!!!

There should have been no foreign interference by any country allied or not, yet your side wheeled him out and he stood there with his stupid threat, how many people did he influence to vote Remain???

It should never have been allowed, yet it was totally fine with your side.

Total hypocrites.

Please link me to a post where I've said any of what you've claimed.

Besides, as others have pointed out, there's a huge difference. Obama was clear and up front about what he wanted. He wasn't funnelling dirty money through back channels or propping up people to do his dirty work.

The issue, as I keep repeating, isn't about if, it's about why. You keep ignoring that point.

Originally Posted by nomadking

What exactly is meant to have taken place? What unexplained things are meant to have been that noticeable? It's a case of "the bogeyman done it", "done what", "erm don't know, he just did".

Good question, if only we'd investigated then we'd know.

Originally Posted by nomadking

There is zero evidence of anything having taken place, so getting into who was responsible, is more than a little bit premature.

Zero evidence because we didn't investigate it. Again, I'm imploring you to ask why we didn't investigate it.

Always with the why.

Too much whataboutism in practically every political debate.