Coronavirus (OLD)

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Self-isolation doesn't mean just by yourself. They are currently self-isolating on the fishing boat. They were quarantined for 14 days in a hotel, before they set out. They were isolated from the general public for 7 weeks.

True self isolation is alone.

60 people in a group can’t “self” isolate. It’s a contradiction in terms, and a scenario for which 14 days doesn’t apply. The fact they avoided the general public doesn’t discount spread amongst themselves.

One false negative test (or test prior to having the virus to the extent you would test positive) and you’ve got the virus in the bubble. Symptomatic or not, that person could conceivably not pass the virus immediately causing a delay. Especially if physical distancing and other measures maintained had strong adherence at first. After 3-4 weeks the second or third infected person could get the ball rolling as the crew become complacent. By week 7 you get the inevitable.

This is part of the reason why football teams and other “bubbles” were tested frequently before training resumed and a ball was kicked. The other obviously being that they could abscond and the virus enter that way.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...8f2930e9ae48f6

Coronavirus vaccine hopes raised by success of early trials

‘Thrilling’ results from Oxford-led group

Hopes for a successful Covid-19 vaccine have been boosted after two leading groups achieved positive early results.

In a phase-one trial involving about 1,000 British volunteers, a University of Oxford vaccine appears to have stimulated the desired response from the immune system, The Times understands.

The subjects are understood to have shown encouraging levels of neutralising antibodies, thought to be important in protecting against viral infection, and there were no serious side-effects.

The results also indicated that another aspect of the immune system, known as T-cells, was mobilised. The researchers have yet to prove that this combined immune response is enough to protect against infection but if it had not been found it would have been a setback. “The Oxford team are very much still in the fight,” a source said.

The Lancet medical journal confirmed last night that it would be publishing early-stage human trial data from the Oxford team on Monday.

However

Astrazeneca, the drugmaker in a partnership with Oxford, cautioned that news on whether the university’s vaccine worked was unlikely before data was gathered from much larger trials towards the end of the year.

[jfman]

Interesting evidence from our world leading, expert, Chief Scientific Adviser at the Parliamentary Select Committee today.

SAGE advised to lockdown a week before lockdown and he says that we will find we didn’t take the “right decisions at the right time”.

So if the scientists make decisions and idle politicians “follow the science” by bowing to their expertise, where did it go wrong?

The good news is he also says it’s probable we have years of this too. Just as well I quite like working from home.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by jfman

Interesting evidence from our world leading, expert, Chief Scientific Adviser at the Parliamentary Select Committee today.

SAGE advised to lockdown a week before lockdown and he says that we will find we didn’t take the “right decisions at the right time”.

So if the scientists make decisions and idle politicians “follow the science” by bowing to their expertise, where did it go wrong?

The good news is he also says it’s probable we have years of this too. Just as well I quite like working from home.

I’ve said all along in this thread that this government “follows the science” as and when it suits them.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jfman

Interesting evidence from our world leading, expert, Chief Scientific Adviser at the Parliamentary Select Committee today.

SAGE advised to lockdown a week before lockdown and he says that we will find we didn’t take the “right decisions at the right time”.

So if the scientists make decisions and idle politicians “follow the science” by bowing to their expertise, where did it go wrong?

The good news is he also says it’s probable we have years of this too. Just as well I quite like working from home.

When they say follow they science they are correct, it's just that there's a small lag of seven days!

---------- Post added at 17:19 ---------- Previous post was at 17:06 ----------

You would hope they would be collaborating, not spying!

Russian spies are targeting organisations trying to develop a coronavirus vaccine in the UK, US and Canada, security services have warned.

The UK's National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC) said the hackers "almost certainly" operated as "part of Russian intelligence services".

It did not specify which organisations had been targeted, or whether any information had been stolen.

But it said vaccine research had not been hindered by the hackers.

Russia has denied responsibility.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53429506

[nomadking]

So a lockdown could simply be implemented overnight?
The advice was "as soon as possible".
Link

Vallance told the committee that SAGE advised the government to impose lockdown measures “as soon as possible” on the 16 or 18 March. He said this happened as soon as data showed further restrictions were needed. “Looking back, you can see the data may have preceded that but the data was not available before that.”
Scientists realised in mid-March that “we were further ahead in the epidemic than had been thought”.

Link

Vallance told the committee that coronavirus was likely to be around for a number of years.
Asked about the potential of a second wave, he said what most people mean by this is essentially a re-emergence of the first wave, which has been suppressed.
But he told MPs that if there is an increase in cases in the winter: “You could argue that is the tail end of the first wave still.
“And I think it is quite probable that we will see this virus coming back in different waves over a number of years.”

Link

Sir Patrick said the evidence of the effectiveness of wearing face coverings in public was "not straightforward" but added they could have a "marginal but positive" impact on reducing the spread of the virus.

The snag is, that if wearing a mask leads to you potentially exposing yourself more often, then any marginal benefit is wiped out. Eg Throwing a pair of dice, a double six might be marginal, but throw them several times, it becomes less marginal.

On testing, which the government has been working to increase, Dr Harries said community testing was stopped in the middle of March because of issues with capacity.
She said: "If we had unlimited capacity, and the ongoing support beyond that, then we perhaps would choose a slightly different approach."
Asked if there was anything he would have changed when he looks back, Sir Patrick told the committee: "I think if we’d managed to ramp testing capacity quicker it would have been beneficial.
"And, you know, for all sorts of reasons that didn’t happen."
It was also revealed in the committee that the main "seeding" of the epidemic in UK was as a result of people coming to the UK from Italy and Spain in UK in early March.

All countries , including Germany and South Korea had problems with testing capacity.

[jfman]

I did wonder who’d be first in to bat for the Government but it was predictable really. Nomadking to the... flounder?

With exponential growth rate of the virus, I’m sure the resources of the fifth (are we still fifth) richest economy in the world could have coped with it similarly to extending it for a week at the cost of tens of thousands of lives and considerable NHS resource.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

When they say follow they science they are correct, it's just that there's a small lag of seven days!

---------- Post added at 17:19 ---------- Previous post was at 17:06 ----------

You would hope they would be collaborating, not spying!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53429506

That was not the start date that was advised, it was merely when the government were advised(16th or 18th). It couldn't happen overnight, and it was publicly announced on the 23rd.


Surely that alleged spying is a form of seeking collaboration. They were seeking information, which with collaboration would theoretically occur anyway.

Originally Posted by nomadking

That was not the start date that was advised, it was merely when the government were advised(16th or 18th). It couldn't happen overnight, and it was publicly announced on the 23rd.


Surely that alleged spying is a form of seeking collaboration. They were seeking information, which with collaboration would theoretically occur anyway.

WTAF?

Is this in line with you not condemning the Russian bounties on our troops in Afghanistan - was that because the Taliban were probably going to try and kill them anyway*? :

*in line with your, for lack of a better word, logic in your post.

[jfman]

Nomadking appears to hate this country more than I get accused of. While I disagree with much our military do, I don’t think Russia putting a bounty on them is reasonable. A good hard honest working person trying to get a mortgage is a ‘parasite’ in his/her eyes.

Such an awful and skewed world view.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

I did wonder who’d be first in to bat for the Government but it was predictable really. Nomadking to the... flounder?

With exponential growth rate of the virus, I’m sure the resources of the fifth (are we still fifth) richest economy in the world could have coped with it similarly to extending it for a week at the cost of tens of thousands of lives and considerable NHS resource.

It's not a matter of "batting for the government", it's pointing out the FACTS(strange concept it would seem) about the reports. Have I posted or quoted anything that if FACTUALLY incorrect?

Eg the claim was made that the government were advised to start lockdown a week earlier. When you actually look at the FACTS, they were merely advised on the 16th or 18th to do so "as soon as possible". It was announced on the 23rd. So possibly told on the Wednesday, take a few days to consider, decide, and plan, and it was announced on the following Monday(weekend getting in the way?).

It is FACT, that both Germany and South Korea had shortages of testing kits and PPE.

It is FACT, that even the WHO didn't initially recommend the general wearing of face masks.

5th May

Sir Patrick Vallance said: “When you look at everything that happened, maybe days either way would have made a difference."
But he rejected the idea that ministers should have brought in the restrictions at the start of March.
He told MPs: “I think it’s difficult to look back and say that three weeks [earlier] was an obvious point to do it. I don’t think that was clear. I don't think that is clear now.
...
But he played down the importance of face coverings, despite Boris Johnson claiming they could play a role in disease prevention and in giving people confidence when the lockdown is eased.

So just "maybe", not definitely.

20th March

Measures to close entertainment, hospitality and indoor leisure premises across the country to take place from the end of trading hours today (Friday 20 March) to limit spread of coronavirus 
New measures will further limit people’s sustained social contact as we tackle the spread of coronavirus, guided by scientific evidence

Public urged to stay at home and limit all but essential travel - people who can work from home should do so

16h March

So, second, now is the time for everyone to stop non-essential contact with others and to stop all unnecessary travel.
We need people to start working from home where they possibly can. And you should avoid pubs, clubs, theatres and other such social venues.
...
So third, in a few days’ time – by this coming weekend – it will be necessary to go further and to ensure that those with the most serious health conditions are largely shielded from social contact for around 12 weeks.
And again the reason for doing this in the next few days, rather than earlier or later, is that this is going to be very disruptive for people who have such conditions, and difficult for them, but, I believe, it’s now necessary.

Other measures and advice were in place BEFORE full lockdown announced on the 23rd. Those other measures and advice should've limited the spread anyway. "Social distancing" was already in place. It's not as if nothing happened before the 23rd. That is FACT.

---------- Post added at 18:40 ---------- Previous post was at 18:34 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

WTAF?

Is this in line with you not condemning the Russian bounties on our troops in Afghanistan - was that because the Taliban were probably going to try and kill them anyway*? :

*in line with your, for lack of a better word, logic in your post.

As was just said on a TV news report, IF they had gotten hold of anything, it would've been something in, or soon to be in, the public domain. If there was full collaboration, it would've been pointless trying
Link

And they are also challenging them over targeting something that the general public recognises as being highly sensitive - coronavirus vaccine research - rather than simply some company or government department's information.
However, on another level we should not be too surprised by the claim.
Understanding vaccine research and other details about the pandemic has become a top target for intelligence agencies around the world and many others, including Western spies, are likely to be active in this space.
...
But one cyber-security expert said the Russians were unlikely to be the only ones involved in such a campaign.
"They have lots of people, we have lots of people, the Americans have even more people, as do the Chinese," commented Prof Ross Anderson from the University of Cambridge's Computer Laboratory.
"They are all trying to steal this kind of stuff all the time."

How much of the alleged attacks are just the SAME sort that the rest of us, get all the time.


Where was the actual evidence of bounties? My issue, as explained at the time, was that it was hypocritical of those making the accusations.

[jfman]

Nomadking it's your shall we say, selective, use of facts and the opinions you offer around them. You frame assumptions around them always in favour of the Government.

Indeed, in 6080 posts I'm struggling to think of a time you've ever offered an opinion against them.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by jfman

Nomadking it's your shall we say, selective, use of facts and the opinions you offer around them. You frame assumptions around them always in favour of the Government.

Indeed, in 6080 posts I'm struggling to think of a time you've ever offered an opinion against them.

To be fair that is the normal around here. There are few notable exceptions to this ..

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

Nomadking it's your shall we say, selective, use of facts and the opinions you offer around them. You frame assumptions around them always in favour of the Government.

Indeed, in 6080 posts I'm struggling to think of a time you've ever offered an opinion against them.

Selective? I often have to point out the FULL FACTS contained within other peoples links. How could I possibly do that by being more selective? It's usually a case of reading beyond the headline.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Selective? I often have to point out the FULL FACTS contained within other peoples links.

So a lockdown could simply be implemented overnight?

This is not a fact. It’s your selective opinion. Indeed, it was announced and implemented, literally overnight. At 8.30pm Monday to stay at home on Tuesday.

What you offer is tedious nonsense copied and pasted, devoid of analysis to the extent where as long as we aren’t the worst performer, under any basis, of any policy, you’d cite the worst example.

I aspire to more than second last.