Black Lives Matter

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

That's the problem with this thread. US police do bad things with black lives. Suddenly, the UK becomes tarred with the same brush but on a wider scale. Then the left wing biased BBC is brought into play (Papa's sentiment is right).

No way is the Farage-loving Brexit Broadcasting Corporation left wing biased. But that's another debate.

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Hugh

You sound as if you feel you’re being discriminated against - not much fun, is it?

btw, the latest stats show people from BAME backgrounds make up 15.3% of BBC staff - since nearly 85% of are white, your statement is probably not based on actuality...

according to the 2011 Census, the total population of England and Wales was 56.1 million, and 86.0% of the population was White

admittedly that number must have shifted a bit by now.

stop presenting equality AS bias.

Originally Posted by Pierre

So you’ve moved from “never seen that happen”

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...&postcount=625

To:

Oh yah, it’s a method of balancing decades of discrimination, oh yah

Those aren't contradictory though.

There is a difference between hiring someone because they're BAME and setting up a recruitment system that's designed to increase the number of BAME candidates that go to interview and therefore get employed.

That's where blind CVs have been shown to work, at least for opening positions early on in someone's career, because more women and BAME candidates get through to the interview stage in that system. (There is a question of if this is effective for more senior roles later on).

Hugh was responding to your claim that someone is directly hired because they're from a minority demographic. I.E That someone less capable is hired because of it. However in the system Hugh describes that isn't what happens, instead, a more diverse group of candidates get considered and the power of numbers means over enough interviews the percentage of BAME/female candidates that get employed goes up.

---------- Post added at 10:09 ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 ----------

Originally Posted by downquark1

admittedly that number must have shifted a bit by now.

stop presenting equality AS bias.

Bear in mind that the BBC's biggest staffing areas have traditionally been in London (40% BAME) and Manchester (16-17%) BAME as well. In fact with all the talk of representation in media there is the London-effect in play as well. Growing up in London gives a nice step-up for anyone looking to go into the arts or journalism.

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Damien

Bear in mind that the BBC's biggest staffing areas have traditionally been in London (40% BAME) and Manchester (16-17%) BAME as well.

Well make up your mind, should be the BBC represent, the UK, the world, or London? Exactly what do you call fair?

Most of these problems don't get solved because the problem isn't even properly defined.

Originally Posted by downquark1

admittedly that number must have shifted a bit by now.

stop presenting equality AS bias.

So the stats show that the BBC has the same percentage of of BAME as the U.K. population?

Kinda refutes papa’s point, doesn’t it?

---------- Post added at 10:13 ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 ----------

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Trust me if i wen't for a job at the beeb they'd throw me out no matter what my colour /alphabet status was on the day,i'm just not pc friendly

"pc friendly" - treating everyone equally.

OK, then...

---------- Post added at 10:15 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

The same kind of targets i was assured didn’t exist in the corporate world by persons on here, until I showed that they did.......suddenly that line of discussion went quiet.

No one said targets didn’t exist - they said people weren’t hired because of them; they are there to provide opportunities to balance things out, but if anyone can’t meet the requirements for the job, they shouldn’t get hired.

Nice attempt at twisting words - not like you...

Originally Posted by downquark1

Well make up your mind, should be the BBC represent, the UK, the world, or London? Exactly what do you call fair?

Most of these problems don't get solved because the problem isn't even properly defined.

Make up my mind on what?

My point is the BBC's current staffing seems somewhat in line with the national average of BAME and if anything you would think it might be a bit higher because the local pool they're recruiting from is disproportionately BAME relative to the national population.

I am not declaring anything there. Just find it an interesting thing to consider.

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Damien

Make up my mind on what?

My point is the BBC's current staffing seems somewhat in line with the national average of BAME and if anything you would think it might be a bit higher because the local pool they're recruiting from is disproportionately BAME relative to the national population.

I am not declaring anything there. Just find it an interesting thing to consider.

Well I understand the efforts are made to be representative of the UK, so the fact that they are would suggest they are at least superficially successful. That is if you agree with the whole argument to begin with.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

If you were to complain you've been treated unfairly in relation to your co-workers, say you get 5 days fewer holidays than everyone else, and said 'I deserve as much as holiday as anyone else' and all your boss kept saying is 'EVERYONE deserves the same' then you'll get pretty pissed off.

You’ll have to run that by me again. That’s a poor analogy.

Where are black people being told to accept less than everyone else?

---------- Post added at 10:51 ---------- Previous post was at 10:48 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Those aren't contradictory though.

There is a difference between hiring someone because they're BAME and setting up a recruitment system that's designed to increase the number of BAME candidates that go to interview and therefore get employed.

That's where blind CVs have been shown to work, at least for opening positions early on in someone's career, because more women and BAME candidates get through to the interview stage in that system. (There is a question of if this is effective for more senior roles later on).

Hugh was responding to your claim that someone is directly hired because they're from a minority demographic. I.E That someone less capable is hired because of it. However in the system Hugh describes that isn't what happens, instead, a more diverse group of candidates get considered and the power of numbers means over enough interviews the percentage of BAME/female candidates that get employed goes up.

---------- Post added at 10:09 ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 ----------



Bear in mind that the BBC's biggest staffing areas have traditionally been in London (40% BAME) and Manchester (16-17%) BAME as well. In fact with all the talk of representation in media there is the London-effect in play as well. Growing up in London gives a nice step-up for anyone looking to go into the arts or journalism.

As I’ve mentioned earlier I am totally in favour of equality of opportunity.

Equality of outcome however, where you set a figure of the number of people from any background that you must employ I.e. setting the outcome, is the road to hell.

---------- Post added at 10:59 ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

No one said targets didn’t exist - they said people weren’t hired because of them; they are there to provide opportunities to balance things out, but if anyone can’t meet the requirements for the job, they shouldn’t get hired.

Nice attempt at twisting words - not like you...

Piffle, I can see the next diversity report from a major ethical corporation.

“Yes , well we interviewed lots of candidates That are under represented in our organisation but we missed our diversity targets because they just weren’t good enough, and we had a much larger pool of white men to choose from, so we just went with that.”

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Targets are one of the methods of balancing decades of (sometimes subconscious) discriminatory hiring, and motivate companies to review policies that can support equality of opportunities, introducing practices such as "blind CVs", balanced interview panels, & outreach programmes.

Unfortunately, old ways of doing things don’t fix themselves, and a target is an ambition, not a measure companies will go under from not meeting.

It's a blunt instrument, Hugh, that simply substitutes one form of discrimination for another. Two wrongs do not make a right. Instead of alienating a minority, this simply alienates the majority.

The solution is equal treatment. That is the way to go.

---------- Post added at 11:05 ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

No way is the Farage-loving Brexit Broadcasting Corporation left wing biased. But that's another debate.

Since when did the BBC adore Farage? They treat him with contempt!

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Since when did the BBC adore Farage? They treat him with contempt!

They think that the BBC's constitutional obligation to host him is an endorsement.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The BBC was brought into play legitimately, Seph, due to their response to the BLM issue.

However, we should not allow racists to water down the fact that this movement gained popular support due to US police violence against black people.

This is not about statues, attacks on the white population or the sensibilities of the flakes, and it’s certainly not about violent protest and damage to property. It’s about the continuing violent repression towards blacks in the US, which operates in plain sight. I have no time for the U.K. version, which has the overthrow of capitalism as one of its objectives - nothing to do with addressing discrimination against black people at all.

The incidents happen because of the violence of Black people against the police. The videos show that. Eg if you're going to suddenly struggle, attack police, grab a taser(could've easily been the gun) and drunkly aim it at an armed person, you are going to be shot. At the very least the police officers could've been blinded by the taser barbs, never mind it went near a major artery in the neck. Would you like in the current situation, like to be spat upon?



They get treated the SAME as anyone would in the SAME situation and acting up the SAME way.
Link

The Angiolini Review of deaths in police custody found that, while the death rate of black individuals arrested was not disproportionate to white people in England, the proportion of deaths involving use of force was.
It also found that mental health and intoxication was a major factor in deaths in police custody, meaning black people with mental health issues often suffered "double discrimination".

[downquark1]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ffensive-image

Petition says image of St Michael standing on Satan is reminiscent of George Floyd killing

Originally Posted by downquark1

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ffensive-image

Originally Posted by Grauniad

“The original image may have been of St Michael slaying Satan, but the figure has no horns or tail and is clearly a black man. It is a shocking depiction, and it is even more shocking that that image could be presented to ambassadors representing this country abroad,” he said.

No tail except the green, scaly one to match his green, scaly wings. Honestly this is just absurd. There are people running round looking for things to be offended about.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Chris

No tail except the green, scaly one to match his green, scaly wings. Honestly this is just absurd. There are people running round looking for things to be offended about.

Prolly white wokes.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by downquark1

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ffensive-image

The picture isn't really about White and Black, it's about the notions of Light and Dark.