Black Lives Matter

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by nomadking

There was a University that in the name of equality, paid men a LOWER hourly rate than the women. The men were expected to work for more hours and more days for the same annual salary as the women. The jobs the men were doing were ones that the women couldn't and wouldn't do.


How many women are clearing out fat bergs in the sewer system? How many women on the refuse collection rounds? The list goes on and on.

Oh it does, let’s get gender equality in Brick laying.

The whole idea of some evil patriarchy subjugating women is one of the biggest hoax’s of the 21st century.

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I call "shenanigans"...

The Universities that have outsourced cleaning also usually outsource the maintenance, porters, and security work (all low paid, but most maintenance, porters, and security staff are mostly male, so balances out the cleaning staff) - also, most Universities' Gender Pay Gap & Equal Pay Report is also by pay grade and staff category, not just the overall gap; for instance, see Strathclyde's report

btw, I worked at 3 different Universities over a 10 year period (at a senior level) and never saw, or attended, a cocktail party - bit of inverse grading snobbery occurring in that jibe, methinks...

OK admittedly I don't know if they get sent to as nice conference parties as I do. But the Professor/Cleaner skew was specifically mentioned at internal meetings.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Clearly demonstrating how ill-judged our current equality laws are.

The point I would take from it is not to reduce complex problems to political slogans and near meaningless metrics.

---------- Post added at 17:54 ---------- Previous post was at 17:47 ----------

Between 2017 and 2019 there has been a reduction of more than three percentage points in the overall gender pay gap (the percentage difference between men’s average hourly pay (excluding overtime) and women’s average hourly pay (excluding overtime), irrespective of Grade) and the University remains commited to taking appropriate action to further reduce this gap.

Translation, maybe we can get cancel our security contracts and hire men directly. Or outsource catering.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Head porter? or security guard.

Now now . . I rather think Hugh was something to do with Computers . . maybe technical support.


I'm actually (honestly) re-watching DVD's of The IT Crowd currently.


For future reference, I will be thinking Hugh is the Irish one

[downquark1]

Do you have the previous report from something like 2015? I want to compare headcounts

[nomadking]

I wonder what the figures are for Newnham College, Cambridge? It's Women only.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by nomadking

There was a University that in the name of equality, paid men a LOWER hourly rate than the women. The men were expected to work for more hours and more days for the same annual salary as the women. The jobs the men were doing were ones that the women couldn't and wouldn't do.


How many women are clearing out fat bergs in the sewer system? How many women on the refuse collection rounds? The list goes on and on.

How is that equality? Another example of the muddled thinking some universities are afflicted with.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by downquark1

OK so this is a true story. A few years ago Theresa May ordered companies to publish their wages gaps. So the HR departments in universities went to work to calculate their wage gaps. To their horror they found a large wage gap.
So it seems that the highest paid positions (Professors) skew male and the lowest paid positions (cleaners) skew female. How could this be? Could they be relentless bigots? Could the labour markets be skewed, it matters not, the wage gap does not care when the results are published. How to fix this? You can't sack the professors, that would be illegal and leave you with no university. You can't pull a load of female professors from no where. So what to do?

Well what some Universities did was remove the cleaners from the payroll and hire an external company to do the cleaning.

So by one form of analysis they shrank the wage gap which they can now brag about at cocktail parties and feminist award ceremonies.

By another form of analysis all they did was sack some working class women and call it a victory for equality.

When I worked in the benefits department, the top bods decided that all telephone calls should be answered within rings to "improve the service". Management then routed all calls to one telephone in our office. Each call answered was indeed answered within 5 rings and the new policy was achieved (despite the fact that most people got the engaged tone and less people than ever before actually got through).

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

When I worked in the benefits department, the top bods decided that all telephone calls should be answered within rings to "improve the service". Management then routed all calls to one telephone in our office. Each call answered was indeed answered within 5 rings and the new policy was achieved (despite the fact that most people got the engaged tone and less people than ever before actually got through).

So there was only one person tsking calls then.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

There was a University that in the name of equality, paid men a LOWER hourly rate than the women. The men were expected to work for more hours and more days for the same annual salary as the women. The jobs the men were doing were ones that the women couldn't and wouldn't do.

Which university was this? I'm guessing not the UK which has salary bands at universities.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Which university was this? I'm guessing not the UK which has salary bands at universities.

Aberystwyth is the UK, isn't it? It was salary bands that caused the issue. The men were paid the same annual salary as the women, but were expected to work more hours, on more days. As a consequence their hourly rate was less.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Head porter? or security guard.

Originally Posted by nomadking

That's about senior as White men are going to be allowed to get.

IT Director at one, Head of IT Development & Support at two others.

Strange how a BLM thread has become a thread about equality between men and women. Now is that going off topic or not?

Originally Posted by nomadking

Aberystwyth is the UK, isn't it? It was salary bands that caused the issue. The men were paid the same annual salary as the women, but were expected to work more hours, on more days. As a consequence their hourly rate was less.

Again, shenanigans.

Under the HERA pay scales (brought in 2005-06), Grades 1-5 all have overtime (after 37 hours) at x1.5 (Mon-Sat) and x2 (Sundays & Bank Holidays) - Grade 6s and above is ‘hours required to fulfil duties’.

---------- Post added at 08:32 ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

I wonder what the figures are for Newnham College, Cambridge? It's Women only.

That’ll be a shock for Ian Wilson, John Fawcett, Matthew Ireland, Nigel Knight, Rupert Brown, and the other men who teach there...

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Maggy

Strange how a BLM thread has become a thread about equality between men and women. Now is that going off topic or not?

See intersectionality.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Again, shenanigans.

Under the HERA pay scales (brought in 2005-06), Grades 1-5 all have overtime (after 37 hours) at x1.5 (Mon-Sat) and x2 (Sundays & Bank Holidays) - Grade 6s and above is ‘hours required to fulfil duties’.

---------- Post added at 08:32 ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 ----------

That’ll be a shock for Ian Wilson, John Fawcett, Matthew Ireland, Nigel Knight, Rupert Brown, and the other men who teach there...

There was a legal case about it.


There was news report about arguments over whether men should finally allowed to be Fellows.

2. Fellows in Category A
College Lecturers and Tutors are appointed by the Council. Any woman appointed to College Lecturer or Tutor will be elected into a Fellowship in Category A which will be retained for the period of appointment. A man appointed College Lecturer is employed on the same terms and conditions as a woman and is entitled to attend meetings of the Governing Body, but cannot be elected into a Fellowship.

One of Cambridge University’s last women’s only colleges is to accept men from 2021, as its president says there are now “other under-represented groups”.
...

It is the latest women’s College to update its admission policy in recent years. In 2017, Murray Edwards College changed its policy to allow any students who "identify" as female to apply.
The college previously required all applicants to be “legally defined as female”, but its council approved an update to its entry criteria, stating that it will accept any student “who at the point of application identifies as a woman”.
Meanwhile Newnham College, which was co-founded in 1871 by one of the leaders of the suffragist movement, Millicent Garrett Fawcett, made a “Transgender Policy Statement” in 2015.
It said they accept “any individual who had transitioned to female, and any individual who is legally recognized as female under the Gender Recognition Act”.
Earlier this year, it emerged that Oxford University ended its women-only fellowship after the university’s administrators said it breached equality law.