Black Lives Matter

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Maggy

I am contributing.I have been trying to get people to actually come up with any kind of strategy to actually address the issue..

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Well, they can start with introducing a general equality law rather than . . <snip>

Originally Posted by jfman

The thing is there isn't a law that specifically targets minority groups. It's people, and their interpretation of said laws . . <snip>

I think your not going to get anything that works Maggy. As the two posts show, when one person suggests something there's another person to pull it apart.

I'm not having pops at OB & jfman, they're just an example of why nothing usually gets sorted to any satisfaction.

[jfman]

Thanks

Originally Posted by jfman

White, able bodied, heterosexual men don't experience the downside of such unconscious, or even conscious, bias.

I dont know how you managed to say that with a straight face.

Did you miss the post about the Football League 'rule'.

The English Football League has made it policy that clubs must interview at least one black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) candidate when searching for a new first-team manager.

Is there a rule that says they must interview a none BAME candidate ?
(Answer: No, there isnt).

I have seen countless adverts from my local council stating they "particularly welcome" applicants from non white communities, more bias.

You dont fix racism by applying it in the opposite direction.

Originally Posted by Paul

I dont know how you managed to say that with a straight face.

Did you miss the post about the Football League 'rule'.

Is there a rule that says they must interview a none BAME candidate ?
(Answer: No, there isnt).

I have seen countless adverts from my local council stating they "particularly welcome" applicants from non white communities, more bias.

You dont fix racism by applying it in the opposite direction.

---------- Post added at 09:50 ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Well, they can start with introducing a general equality law rather than specify the particular minority groups who can benefit from it. That would at least end the resentment of able-bodied, heterosexual white men that currently exists. Maybe then people will start to see equality in a different light.

With all members of the public on board (due to self interest) the pressure will finally exist to weigh against employers who do not have proper processes in place to select staff, against police to demonstrate suitable cause to arrest and detain, etc. The population will be speaking with one voice.

I do believe education is already happening. All the young people I contact are very aware of the stupidity and injustice of discrimination in all its forms. The older generation who hold racist views are, frankly, beyond help, but they are becoming less relevant with time.

However, minority groups need to be careful as well. If they press too hard, resentment will surface on both sides. This whole issue needs to be carefully managed, and pulling down statues will have the opposite effect from that intended by right thinking people.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Paul

I dont know how you managed to say that with a straight face.

Did you miss the post about the Football League 'rule'.

Is there a rule that says they must interview a none BAME candidate ?
(Answer: No, there isnt).

I have seen countless adverts from my local council stating they "particularly welcome" applicants from non white communities, more bias.

You dont fix racism by applying it in the opposite direction.

All anyone should want is equality of opportunity. As long as there is equal and fair access for all. Outcome should depend on the individuals talent and ability.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Pierre

All anyone should want is equality of opportunity. As long as there is equal and fair access for all. Outcome should depend on the individuals talent and ability.

Yep, that works for ageism too.

Sheesh, the number of roles/positions I 'enquired' about and had the firm falling all over me . . . until they discovered my age*



*when I was in late 50's

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Pierre

All anyone should want is equality of opportunity. As long as there is equal and fair access for all. Outcome should depend on the individuals talent and ability.

Don't we already have that https://www.eoc.org.uk/

The Equality Act has specified 9 areas that are termed in the legislation as protected characteristics. These include (in no particular order):

Age
Sex
Race
Disability
Pregnancy
Marital status
Sexual orientation.
Gender reassignment
Religious background

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Don't we already have that https://www.eoc.org.uk/

The Equality Act has specified 9 areas that are termed in the legislation as protected characteristics. These include (in no particular order):

Age
Sex
Race
Disability
Pregnancy
Marital status
Sexual orientation.
Gender reassignment
Religious background

Indeed but my point was more aimed at those that push for equality of outcome. i.e. a specific quota of whatever minority you might think of.

Meaning you put a less able and qualified person ahead of a more able and qualified person just to fulfil an outcome.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Indeed but my point was more aimed at those that push for equality of outcome. i.e. a specific quota of whatever minority you might think of.

Meaning you put a less able and qualified person ahead of a more able and qualified person just to fulfil an outcome.

Positive discrimination ? https://coodes.co.uk/blog/positive-d...n%20the%20past.

An employer is guilty of positive discrimination if they hire or seek an individual purely based on their protected characteristic, rather than experience or qualifications. Protected characteristics include race, gender, age, disability, religion and sexual orientation.

Positive discrimination also includes setting quotas or benchmarks in the recruitment process, or promoting a specific number of people within a minority group.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Don't we already have that https://www.eoc.org.uk/

The Equality Act has specified 9 areas that are termed in the legislation as protected characteristics. These include (in no particular order):

Age
Sex
Race
Disability
Pregnancy
Marital status
Sexual orientation.
Gender reassignment
Religious background

It's a law - doesn't mean it's always followed (otherwise, we wouldn't have drunk drivers, speeders, burglars, murderers, etc. as there are also laws against those).

---------- Post added at 12:10 ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

Indeed but my point was more aimed at those that push for equality of outcome. i.e. a specific quota of whatever minority you might think of.

Meaning you put a less able and qualified person ahead of a more able and qualified person just to fulfil an outcome.

Never seen that happen - just because someone has a "protected characteristic" doesn't mean they'll get a job because of that; they also have to have the competencies, capabilities, and required experience.

(unless you're talking about political Ministerial posts - experience and competency don't seem to be a requisite (for whichever party is in power)).

[Carth]

Pretty sure that, for years, I've been reading about the need for a push to employ more >*insert race, confused gender, disability here*< because they're lower than the statistics say they should be.

Isn't that akin to employing people based on statistics rather than ability?

[Jimmy-J]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Indeed but my point was more aimed at those that push for equality of outcome. i.e. a specific quota of whatever minority you might think of.

Meaning you put a less able and qualified person ahead of a more able and qualified person just to fulfil an outcome.

Like they seem to do at the BBC?

[nomadking]

This "equality of opportunity" is just a load of nonsense. There are so many factors involved for EVERYBODY. If anything, it's White, British, Heterosexual, Males, that are last in line.

Originally Posted by nomadking

This "equality of opportunity" is just a load of nonsense. There are so many factors involved for EVERYBODY. If anything, it's White, British, Heterosexual, Males, that are last in line.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Maggy

So how many schemes and how much money go to things that include them?
Eg

Lewis Hamilton has announced plans to set up a commission in his name to increase diversity in motorsport.
The world champion said he wants the Hamilton Commission to make "real, tangible and measurable change".

"Despite my success in the sport, the institutional barriers that have kept F1 highly exclusive persist," he said in a column for the Sunday Times

So many other factors involved, and race ISN'T one of them. Eg Better to live in the right area, where there are race tracks, and the engineering companies that go with it. The White people in F1 DIDN'T ONLY get there simply because they are White. They also didn't get there overnight.