Coronavirus (OLD)

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Again you choose to focus on the media pieces that fit your narrative and in doing so try to prove a universal truth that nearly all journalists are prioritising unwarranted attacks over objective truth. Of course the real world is different to your perception. There will always be journalists in both camps but you insult a lot of professionals to imply that the vast majority are in the former.

your defence of the media is heart warming, but this is all about perceptions. At the moment, although there may be reputable journalists out there, what we are seeing and hearing is not an even handed summary of the situation.

Piers Morgan was atrocious this morning, already claiming that if they don't reach the 100,000 testing benchmark they were aiming for that Hancock should resign!

I believe that many peoples perception of the media right now tallies with the author of that article.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Pierre

your defence of the media is heart warming, but this is all about perceptions. At the moment, although there may be reputable journalists out there, what we are seeing and hearing is not an even handed summary of the situation.

Piers Morgan was atrocious this morning, already claiming that if they don't reach the 100,000 testing benchmark they were aiming for that Hancock should resign!

I believe that many peoples perception of the media right now tallies with the author of that article.

When does accountability kick in, they make these bold claims and tell even bolder lies and nothing happens, at worst they'll be sacked for a short time and then brought back into another top job that they proved they weren't up to last time, seems to me they want all the privileges of power and none of the responsibility

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

When does accountability kick in, they make these bold claims and tell even bolder lies and nothing happens, at worst they'll be sacked for a short time and then brought back into another top job that they proved they weren't up to last time, seems to me they want all the privileges of power and none of the responsibility

what lies? and accountability is always there. A proper inquiry afterwards would decide if there was any "negligence". Negligence can be atoned for, but you're not suggesting we go after people that may have made genuine mistakes do you?

[pip08456]

Meanwhile...

Matt Hancock announces Oxford vaccine project will be ready to trial vaccine in humans from THIS THURSDAY. Scientists there will get £20m for accelerated trials with support of regulators. £22.5m for Imperial phase 2 scheme too.

Source

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Wrong as usual. I would be making the same points if Labour made the same mistakes.

I'll take your word for that.

Regardless, you are in the minority.

---------- Post added at 20:11 ---------- Previous post was at 20:05 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

When does accountability kick in, they make these bold claims and tell even bolder lies and nothing happens, at worst they'll be sacked for a short time and then brought back into another top job that they proved they weren't up to last time, seems to me they want all the privileges of power and none of the responsibility

It's a target. That is what he's aiming for.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Pierre

what lies? and accountability is always there. A proper inquiry afterwards would decide if there was any "negligence". Negligence can be atoned for, but you're not suggesting we go after people that may have made genuine mistakes do you?

What lies That's all they do, that's why public faith in them is at an all time low. With regard to this specifically are you suggesting they should just be excused mistakes that cost peoples lives just because they were genuine? There was a time not so long ago when people held their hands up and offered their resignation over things a lot less serious.

It's not like the mistakes aren't still happening, on my way to my key worker job today I was flabbergasted at the amount of people out and about, it was like a particularly busy normal day, I went passed a small block of flats and whole families were mingling together without a care in the world.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It's a target. That is what he's aiming for.

Yes I believe that's the standard procedure wirh a target. Self medicating with booze is as good a way as any to get through the lockdown, I won't judge you for it.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

What lies That's all they do, that's why public faith in them is at an all time low.

. Just thought you could come up with some examples as you accused them, obviously not.

With regard to this specifically are you suggesting they should just be excused mistakes that cost peoples lives just because they were genuine?

As I said there needs to be an enquiry to ascertain if there was any carelessness or negligence. If somebody in the run up to this estimated that 2million PPE gowns would be sufficient, but it turned out we actually needed 4million - that’s a mistake, I wouldn’t sack anyone for that.

There was a time not so long ago when people held their hands up and offered their resignation over things a lot less serious.

Never been one for the instant resignation, depending on what the error is

It's not like the mistakes aren't still happening, on my way to my key worker job today I was flabbergasted at the amount of people out and about, it was like a particularly busy normal day, I went passed a small block of flats and whole families were mingling together without a care in the world.

That’s not the government, that is the public, get them to resign.

---------- Post added at 09:51 ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 ----------

Typically the BBC is headlining the news on TV right now with the story of the flight full of PPE equipment arriving from Turkey, they're not saying "oh great more vital PPE", no. They are focusing that it is 3 days late - yes that's the real story.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52378491

Secondly they are criticising the government for joining an EU scheme purchase PPE late.

Although the scheme has not yet delivered 1 box of PPE or 1 ventilator.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52377087

[tweetiepooh]

Mutations in corona virus
I've not gone into the detail yet but this report suggests over 30 strains of corona virus with some more virulent than others. It also suggests that Europe has had more of the virulent form and the US more of a milder strain (at least in some places). If true this could explain higher death rates in some places that others.

[nomadking]

That is the thing about the EU scheme that I don't get. If it was so successful, why isn't the EU awash with PPE stuff, and still suffering from shortages?

[Carth]

I think the PM and his band of merry men people have made decisions and given statements of intent purely on the basis of the advice given to them by the many experienced experts in their fields.

Didn't do (everyones favourite) Tony Blair any harm did it?

Originally Posted by nomadking

That is the thing about the EU scheme that I don't get. If it was so successful, why isn't the EU awash with PPE stuff, and still suffering from shortages?

Because the entire world is trying to get hold of it, and it takes weeks/months to manufacture and ship - the orders are in, they are being manufactured.

---------- Post added at 10:35 ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 ----------

Originally Posted by Carth

I think the PM and his band of merry men people have made decisions and given statements of intent purely on the basis of the advice given to them by the many experienced experts in their fields.

Didn't do (everyones favourite) Tony Blair any harm did it?

If you believe that, I've got a bridge you can buy...

Politicians (of whatever party/country) use the expert advice as advice, which is then shaped by the political climate/persons in charge.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Because the entire world is trying to get hold of it, and it takes weeks/months to manufacture and ship - the orders are in, they are being manufactured.

---------- Post added at 10:35 ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 ----------

If you believe that, I've got a bridge you can buy...

Politicians (of whatever party/country) use the expert advice as advice, which is then shaped by the political climate/persons in charge.

So no advantage whatsoever in being part of an EU scheme that would control and limit allocation anyway. So what is all the fuss and nonsense about?

Originally Posted by nomadking

So no advantage whatsoever in being part of an EU scheme that would control and limit allocation anyway. So what is all the fuss and nonsense about?

Seriously?

So, it's no advantage in being part of a scheme that started over a month ago, and has orders with suppliers and shippers that will be arriving soon, rather than scrambling for orders from places like Turkey that get held up because they don't have local Government clearance (in this case, a Turkish export licence), on goods that have multiple weeks/months supply chain requirements, and haven't even received final NHS approval?

https://www.ft.com/content/a265fac3-...d-769d281fa42f

There were chaotic scenes in Turkey, where British officials desperately worked with Ankara to source PPE to load on to an RAF plane after an initial order with a Turkish supplier for 84 tonnes of equipment failed to materialise.

Whitehall officials said on Tuesday that part of a Turkish PPE consignment — originally scheduled to arrive on Sunday — had finally arrived at Istanbul airport, but had not been cleared by customs or received final NHS approval.

However, the RAF plane waiting on the tarmac at Istanbul to deliver the PPE to the UK has a maximum capacity of 25 tonnes. Two further military aircraft, which are still at Brize Norton airfield in Oxfordshire, were awaiting orders to depart for Turkey.

Meanwhile, next week the first British-made surgical gowns will go into production. Don & Low, a rare producer in the UK of the specialist non-woven material required, has signed a government contract to make enough for 3m-3.5m gowns over three months.

Burberry, the fashion house, and other clothing makers will stitch the gowns. Will Campbell, sales manager of Don & Low, told the FT they had to “build a supply chain from the ground up . . . The problem is the whole world is buying 10, 12 times the normal requirements. We don’t traditionally make gowns in the UK.”

He said his company was first approached by the government about three weeks ago.

tl:dr - the sooner we placed the orders in an agreed procurement process, the sooner we would have received the equipment required, as there is intense competition for PPE which often has a long materials supply chain.

[1andrew1]

Roche has released its results today and in amongst them are some interesting comments

Confirmation that our testing infrastructure is below those of the better countries but is improving:

Roche’s chief executive has said the UK has not invested enough in healthcare and testing infrastructure in recent years — leaving it to lag behind other countries and hindering its response to coronavirus. The Swiss company is one of the diagnostics “big four”, providing molecular tests that look for the presence of the virus using so-called “high throughput” machines, which can process many tests in short amounts of time. “You cannot just start a lab on a greenfield,” Severin Schwan, Roche’s chief executive, said on Wednesday, as he gave a first-quarter trading update.“One of the learnings of this crisis is you see some of the countries who have invested in healthcare, in testing infrastructure over the last [few] years, such as certain countries in Asia, [like] Singapore, or, say, South Korea. Or, if you look in Europe: Germany, Switzerland,” he said. “Those countries now have a huge advantage.” “And then you have other countries who under-invested in healthcare infrastructure, but now it shows,” he said.“There are certain regions in the UK where there is no single high throughput platform,” Mr Schwan went on to say. “In Switzerland, there are 20.”

But things are now improving in the UK

Roche said bottlenecks in testing were down to the lack of infrastructure, rather than a lack of tests, but noted that the UK had made advances in the past few weeks. There has been a “lot of co-operation with authorities, so they should get some credit for what they’ve done”, said Mr Schwan.“The UK and other governments are under enormous pressure,” he said. “To a certain degree nobody could really foresee that and they’re really working hard.”He added Roche was installing new testing infrastructure in the UK and that this “was only possible” because the government supported it.

https://www.ft.com/content/9e3dfb65-...8-a26613ac2c79

---------- Post added at 11:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

So no advantage whatsoever in being part of an EU scheme that would control and limit allocation anyway. So what is all the fuss and nonsense about?

People dying through lack of PPE is not fuss and nonsense in most people's eyes.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

People dying through lack of PPE is not fuss and nonsense in most people's eyes.

And as the EU procurement program has yet to supply 1 piece of PPE then being part of it or not is fuss and nonsense as you well know Andrew.

The European Commission said the UK would miss out on the first orders of ventilators and protective equipment which have been placed but have yet to be delivered.

The UK now has 10,000 ventilators - 3,000 of which are not being used. From early May, 1,500 a week should be supplied by ventilator consortium.