Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Forget who ran the story. Are you saying it's not true and if so, where's the link for this?

Hugh's point yesterday was that if you make an allegation, you need evidence to support it. Not the other way round.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by pip08456

Links please.

Good one!

Originally Posted by Hugh

The changes that were introduced by the Conservative Government of the day, when the Justice Department was lead by Chris Grayling?

Wonder why they don’t want an apology from him, or from Dame Alison Saunders, who was the DPP when the investigation into Paul Gambaccini was undertaken?

Or perhaps Bernard Hogan-Howe, who was the Met Police Commissioner at the time - it was his officers who interviewed Mr Gambaccini.

A small point, but a very important one - the CPS (whoever is in charge) does not decide who gets investigated; the Police do that.

Originally Posted by pip08456

Links please.

hth...

The revised guidance came in in 2011, and Paul Gambaccini was initially arrested and investigated by the Met under Op Yewtree from October 31st 2013.

Chris Grayling https://www.gov.uk/government/people/chris-grayling

Political career

Chris served as Minister of State at the Department for Work and Pensions from May 2010 until September 2012. He was Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice from September 2012 until May 2015, and Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons from May 2015 until 14 July 2016.

Dame Alison Saunders https://www.gov.uk/government/people/alison-saunders

On 1 November 2013, Alison was appointed Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP). She is the first DPP to be appointed from within the CPS.

Bernard Hogan-Howe ttps://members.parliament.uk/member/4693/experience

Metropolitan Police Commissioner 2011 - 2017

Met Police https://www.itv.com/news/update/2013...e-allegations/

Paul Gambaccini has confirmed he was arrested as part of the Metropolitan Police's Operation Yewtree investigation and has denied all allegations, a spokesman for the BBC broadcaster said tonight.

CPS https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps-page/investigation

The difference between the police and the CPS

The police:
The police arrest and question, they gather evidence and take witness statements.
The CPS:
The CPS is responsible for charging and prosecuting, they decide if the evidence is good enough to go to court.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Hugh

hth...

The revised guidance came in in 2011, and Paul Gambaccini was initially arrested and investigated by the Met under Op Yewtree from October 31st 2013.

Chris Grayling https://www.gov.uk/government/people/chris-grayling

Dame Alison Saunders https://www.gov.uk/government/people/alison-saunders

Bernard Hogan-Howe ttps://members.parliament.uk/member/4693/experience

Met Police https://www.itv.com/news/update/2013...e-allegations/

CPS https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps-page/investigation

Big post containing nothing relative to the point.

Where in the above waffle does it refute the claim that

policy changes authorised by new Labour leader Sir Keir during his former job as Director of Public Prosecutions...
...effectively urged police to believe the accuser whenever there was an allegation of sexual abuse and led to the disastrous Operation Midland.

Originally Posted by pip08456

Big post containing nothing relative to the point.

Where in the above waffle does it refute the claim that

Erm, that's not what I posted - I posted

The changes that were introduced by the Conservative Government of the day, when the Justice Department was lead by Chris Grayling?

Wonder why they don’t want an apology from him, or from Dame Alison Saunders, who was the DPP when the investigation into Paul Gambaccini was undertaken?

Or perhaps Bernard Hogan-Howe, who was the Met Police Commissioner at the time - it was his officers who interviewed Mr Gambaccini.

You asked for links, and I supplied them.

The changes were also agreed by Chris Grayling, who was the Justice Secretary at the time - so if an apology is requred from Starmer, shouldn't it also be required from Grayling?

The recommendations were a lot more complex than

effectively urged police to believe the accuser

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24555303

Under the guidelines, prosecutors are told to focus on the credibility of allegations, not on whether victims make good witnesses.

All suspects will also be investigated to see if they possess indecent images.

The guidelines cover how victims should be treated and how a case should be built and presented in court.

A joint protocol for information sharing in child sexual abuse cases has also been published alongside the guidelines, in which police and prosecutors are expected to share information with social services, schools and family courts.

The Met Police launched Operation Midland, not the CPS.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Erm, that's not what I posted - I posted You asked for links, and I supplied them.

The changes were also agreed by Chris Grayling, who was the Justice Secretary at the time - so if an apology is requred from Starmer, shouldn't it also be required from Grayling?

The recommendations were a lot more complex than

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24555303

The Met Police launched Operation Midland, not the CPS.

This is all about Starmer's fitness for office, not Chris Grayling.

I'm not excusing Grayling, but he's a separate disaster area and a separate story.

[ianch99]

Loving the baseless attempts to trash the new Labour leader. Of course, the current administration has a fine selection of upstanding ministers: Patel, Raab, to name a couple of beacons of virtue and integrity.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Loving the baseless attempts to trash the new Labour leader. Of course, the current administration has a fine selection of upstanding ministers: Patel, Raab, to name a couple of beacons of virtue and integrity.

They are not baseless, as I have already pointed out. However, whether they are important is a matter of personal opinion.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Erm, that's not what I posted - I posted You asked for links, and I supplied them.

The changes were also agreed by Chris Grayling, who was the Justice Secretary at the time - so if an apology is requred from Starmer, shouldn't it also be required from Grayling?

The recommendations were a lot more complex than

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24555303

The Met Police launched Operation Midland, not the CPS.

So even though you quoted OB's post you weren't responding to it. Keep on wriggling.

Originally Posted by pip08456

So even though you quoted OB's post you weren't responding to it. Keep on wriggling.

Thanks for the kind offer...

OB posted a link

Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
True. This may be food for thought.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-scandal.html

I was responding to the part in the article where Mr Gambaccini asserted

the veteran BBC broadcaster criticised policy changes authorised by new Labour leader Sir Keir during his former job as Director of Public Prosecutions.

Gambaccini claimed these were 'the biggest single factor' in police investigations into celebrities who were publicly named but never charged with any crime, including himself, comedians Jimmy Tarbuck and Jim Davidson, and Sir Cliff Richard. All were cleared of any wrongdoing.

Gambaccini, 71, said the changes effectively urged police to believe the accuser whenever there was an allegation of sexual abuse and led to the disastrous Operation Midland.

I pointed out that Starmer did not implement these changes on his own, and that others were involved in the investigations, so should these others also apologise?

I can (repeatedly) explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you...

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Thanks for the kind offer...

OB posted a link

I was responding to the part in the article where Mr Gambaccini asserted

I pointed out that Starmer did not implement these changes on his own, and that others were involved in the investigations, so should these others also apologise?

I can (repeatedly) explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you...

But Hugh, this is about the new Leader of the Opposition.,

I haven't claimed that anyone should apologise, but everyone involved in that sorry business deserves censure. One of them is Sir Keith Starmer.

By the way, your link doesn't work.

[Pierre]

No idea what’s going on in this thread now, have Hugh and OB sorted themselves out yet?

I don’t know. Who’s Keith?

[Julian]

Originally Posted by Chris

I don’t know. Who’s Keith?

From Guatemala

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Chris

I don’t know. Who’s Keith?

He means Kev