Coronavirus (OLD)

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Chris

Please be cautious. For a start the article does not say he was healthy. The family is quoted as saying to the best of their knowledge he had no underlying health issues. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. The point is, there is quite enough stress caused over this pandemic already, without people rushing onto internet forums just so they can get a thrill out of being the first to share bad news. Let the science lead your understanding of this illness. Do not rush ahead of it. And certainly don't recklessly misrepresent the articles you're quoting.

Second, there is a useful piece about the significance of viral load that has been doing the rounds. I'm pretty sure I've seen it quoted in here and I have also seen it on Facebook. The initial dose of virus particles that you get, makes a difference as to the severity of the infection you develop. Covid-19 becomes lethal if a significant infection develops deep in the lungs. This happens when the body's immune system can't work fast enough to keep up with the rate of infection. A person weakened by another health condition or with a compromised immune system is vulnerable in this way. Someone who receives a heavy initial does of the virus is also more vulnerable.

So factors such as the boy's home environment, how prolonged was his exposure, and to what form of contamination, are all very relevant. It is quite possible that he has been coughed over by a dozen only mildly infectious people, if he lives in a large household or if his family has flouted hand hygiene or social distancing guidance.

The statistics, even from the early days in China, have shown that even young people *can* die from this infection. That is not news. And it should be stated again and again that the chances of someone younger than their 50s dying of it are very, very small.

Best post in this entire thread.

[joglynne]

Originally Posted by Russ

Best post in this entire thread.

Agree. Chris.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Thank you, much appreciated


A doctor's surgery in Wales has sent out a letter to patients with cancer etc telling them that they would be unlikely to get hospital treatment if they caught the virus:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...ients-18012444

Found a link that contains the letter. It's absolutely shocking, but I believe that they have now issued an apology.

https://welfareweekly.com/nhs-patien...navirus-panic/

[Julian]

+1

Especially this bit

The point is, there is quite enough stress caused over this pandemic already, without people rushing onto internet forums just so they can get a thrill out of being the first to share bad news.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

.... but I believe that they have now issued an apology.

They did. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52117814

[jfman]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Found a link that contains the letter. It's absolutely shocking, but I believe that they have now issued an apology.

https://welfareweekly.com/nhs-patien...navirus-panic/

Are they apologising because it’s a bad idea of because it’s in the news?

I suppose at least they have given us insight into the crisis to come.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Thank you, much appreciated


A doctor's surgery in Wales has sent out a letter to patients with cancer etc telling them that they would be unlikely to get hospital treatment if they caught the virus:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...ients-18012444

Richard, it was totally wrong what the surgery did, but a point of order - "patients with cancer" is not the same thing as patients with "serious health conditions such as incurable cancer, motor neurone disease, and untreatable heart and lung conditions’.

When I read your post, I assumed it was patients in early stage of cancer diagnosis/treatment - our local Health Trust is delaying treatment for those, because they believe compromising their immune system with cancer treatment, with the COVID-19 virus around, is a greater risk than delaying the treatment.

---------- Post added at 20:19 ---------- Previous post was at 20:18 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Are they apologising because it’s a bad idea of because it’s in the news?

I suppose at least they have given us insight into the crisis to come.

Triage is a basic concept of Emergency Medicine - not nice, but a fact.

[nomadking]

Even in normal times. wouldn't a possible DNR be raised? The difference is the possible speed of escalation of the situation.

Patient Elizabeth John, who has vaginal cancer which spread to her lungs and is incurable, said the letter has caused her family "great distress".

Originally Posted by nomadking

Even in normal times. wouldn't a possible DNR be raised? The difference is the possible speed of escalation of the situation.

The difference is the grossly insensitive way it was handled. Something of this magnitude just can't be done via a mail-merge standard letter. It might be sound crisis planning but the execution was beyond crass.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Chris

The difference is the grossly insensitive way it was handled. Something of this magnitude just can't be done via a mail-merge standard letter. It might be sound crisis planning but the execution was beyond crass.

According to the Guardian newspaper, the letter was sent to a small number of patients and the staff at the surgery were apologising directly to those who had received it.

Small selected list.

[jfman]

Be interested to know the exact numbers and circumstances around each case to see how low the DNR bar is going to go.

Originally Posted by Chris

The difference is the grossly insensitive way it was handled. Something of this magnitude just can't be done via a mail-merge standard letter. It might be sound crisis planning but the execution was beyond crass.

Originally Posted by nomadking

Small selected list.

Then they should have rung them...

[jfman]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-ones-bma-says

In the worst case scenario a patient with their situation improving could have a ventilator taken from them given to someone else.

Originally Posted by jfman

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-ones-bma-says

In the worst case scenario a patient with their situation improving could have a ventilator taken from them given to someone else.

What other (realistic, given where we are now) option would you suggest?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Hugh

What other (realistic, given where we are now) option would you suggest?

I’m not making a suggestion - as you said earlier re: triage it’s a grim part of emergency medicine. I’m just lamenting it’s got to this I suppose, and fearful for the future.