Election 2019 - Week 5

Originally Posted by Angua

Not sure even the EU are likely to support Johnsons deal as it stands. However, I suspect they do not want the electorate knowing that "Get Brexit Done" means anything up to 10 years before we see the back of it.

The EU have already approved it, hence that it's a 'deal'.....

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Angua

Not sure even the EU are likely to support Johnsons deal as it stands. However, I suspect they do not want the electorate knowing that "Get Brexit Done" means anything up to 10 years before we see the back of it.

Iirc, Juncker said it takes years to negotiate a free trade deal.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Angua

Not sure even the EU are likely to support Johnsons deal as it stands. However, I suspect they do not want the electorate knowing that "Get Brexit Done" means anything up to 10 years before we see the back of it.

The Withdrawal Agreement as amended by Boris is as good as agreed and will be rubber stamped by EU leaders at the next summit.

The trade deal will most definitely not take 10 years to get done - how do you make that out? Boris reckons he can do the deal within 12 months and I think that is perfectly do-able, just as he was able to get rid of the backstop in a matter of weeks.

It will, however, take a few years to get the other deals outside the EU signed off, and they will enhance the opportunities available to us. This, the free ports, our escape from the suffocating EU which charges countries high tariff rates, and the 'no tariff' policy that the government will introduce are just some of the advantages that we will be able to secure in future years.

The trade deals we strike will be much more relevant to this country's needs (rather than diluted to the lowest common denominator of all 28 countries of the EU) and we will be able to shake free of the debilitating and disincentivising employment legislation of the EU.

---------- Post added at 19:04 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Iirc, Juncker said it takes tears to negotiate a free trade deal.

Juncker is old news now, Seph. It won't take anywhere near as long for us to get a trade deal with the EU since we are already aligned with them.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Chris

On the contrary, he’s a liar, a chancer, a philanderer, and seems to be instinctively contemptuous of those whose background or experiences are much different than his.

On the other hand, the only other person who could conceivably be prime minister this time next week is a clear national security risk, propped up by ideological thugs, and he poses a serious socioeconomic risk with his desire to re-run statist experiments that were tried, and failed, a generation ago.

That’s the calculation everyone has to make this week. “Who’s a nice man?” Doesn’t come into it. “Who’s a liar?” doesn’t either, sadly. Which one of them is more or less likely to keep the country on an even keel and move our government forwards? That’s what everyone has to grapple with.

I’m voting conservative because so far as I can see it’s the only viable choice.

This is it.

He’s not great, but most importantly h3’s not Corbyn. Johnson won’t be there for ever, but at least him winning may see the end of Corbyn as leader and hopefully an internal revolution within Labour to produce a party that is something electable.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Pierre

This is it.

He’s not great, but most importantly h3’s not Corbyn. Johnson won’t be there for ever, but at least him winning may see the end of Corbyn as leader and hopefully an internal revolution within Labour to produce a party that is something electable.

That's right. And although many of us have reservations over Boris, he may yet surprise.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The Withdrawal Agreement as amended by Boris is as good as agreed and will be rubber stamped by EU leaders at the next summit.

The trade deal will most definitely not take 10 years to get done - how do you make that out? Boris reckons he can do the deal within 12 months and I think that is perfectly do-able, just as he was able to get rid of the backstop in a matter of weeks.

It will, however, take a few years to get the other deals outside the EU signed off, and they will enhance the opportunities available to us. This, the free ports, our escape from the suffocating EU which charges countries high tariff rates, and the 'no tariff' policy that the government will introduce are just some of the advantages that we will be able to secure in future years.

The trade deals we strike will be much more relevant to this country's needs (rather than diluted to the lowest common denominator of all 28 countries of the EU) and we will be able to shake free of the debilitating and disincentivising employment legislation of the EU.

---------- Post added at 19:04 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------



Juncker is old news now, Seph. It won't take anywhere near as long for us to get a trade deal with the EU since we are already aligned with them.

Unfortunately, OB, the 27 are likely to get rough. There's fishing rights (a totemic issue), competitive advantage that they don't want us to have through our less restrictive practices and so on. In that respect, John Redwood is right - we don't want our hands and whatsit all strapped behind our backs because France is scared stiff of us.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Angua

Not sure even the EU are likely to support Johnsons deal as it stands. However, I suspect they do not want the electorate knowing that "Get Brexit Done" means anything up to 10 years before we see the back of it.

You're right most of the public don't realise that Brexit won't be sorted by this Election and a vote in Parliament. It won't be 'oven ready' as Mr Blobby claims. He assumes the public are fools and he may be right. However the 'Get Brexit done' lie will come back to haunt the Tories big time when they realise they've been had and we're still effectively tied to the EU for years.

---------- Post added at 19:26 ---------- Previous post was at 19:22 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

This is it.

He’s not great, but most importantly h3’s not Corbyn. Johnson won’t be there for ever, but at least him winning may see the end of Corbyn as leader and hopefully an internal revolution within Labour to produce a party that is something electable.

So Corbyns and Johnsons main attractions are at least they aren't each other, and they won't be there forever
God help us....

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

You're right most of the public don't realise that Brexit won't be sorted by this Election and a vote in Parliament. It won't be 'oven ready' as Mr Blobby claims. He assumes the public are fools and he may be right. However the 'Get Brexit done' lie will come back to haunt the Tories big time when they realise they've been had and we're still effectively tied to the EU for years.

Brexit will happen in January 2020, Mr K, provided that Boris gets a working majority.

The trade deal is another matter, but if any of our friends in the EU think they can snatch our fish, they've got another think coming.

Boris is made of sterner stuff than entering into a deal that does not benefit us. And those fish are ours once outside the EU.

Canada didn't have to give away its fishing rights to secure its deal with the EU, so why should we? Out means out. Brexit means Brexit. Free movement, Common Agricultural Policy and all that other rubbish will be a thing of the past for us, and about time, too.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Brexit will happen in January 2020, Mr K, provided that Boris gets a working majority.

The trade deal is another matter, but if any of our friends in the EU think they can snatch our fish, they've got another think coming.

Boris is made of sterner stuff than entering into a deal that does not benefit us. And those fish are ours once outside the EU.

Canada didn't have to give away its fishing rights to secure its deal with the EU, so why should we? Out means out. Brexit means Brexit. Free movement, Common Agricultural Policy and all that other rubbish will be a thing of the past for us, and about time, too.

I don't think the EU will see it that way.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Brexit will happen in January 2020, Mr K, provided that Boris gets a working majority.

The trade deal is another matter, but if any of our friends in the EU think they can snatch our fish, they've got another think coming.

Boris is made of sterner stuff than entering into a deal that does not benefit us. And those fish are ours once outside the EU.

Canada didn't have to give away its fishing rights to secure its deal with the EU, so why should we? Out means out. Brexit means Brexit. Free movement, Common Agricultural Policy and all that other rubbish will be a thing of the past for us, and about time, too.

Brexit won't happen in January OB; we will still be paying into the EU, following EU rules, with no say. Is that Brexit? You just proved my point about the public's lack of understanding.. it'll go on for years as No deal is an empty bluff, for any politician that wants to stay in power, as Mr Blobby certainly will....

As for him being made of stern stuff; he's certainly full of something but it's not that..

( P.s. love the 'Brexit means Brexit' line, made me laugh a lot !)

[papa smurf]

Labour rank top of the world's top 10.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politi...hreat-to-jews/

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Brexit won't happen in January OB; we will still be paying into the EU, following EU rules, with no say. Is that Brexit? You just proved my point about the public's lack of understanding.. it'll go on for years as No deal is an empty bluff, for any politician that wants to stay in power, as Mr Blobby certainly will....

As for him being made of stern stuff; he's certainly full of something but it's not that..

( P.s. love the 'Brexit means Brexit' line, made me laugh a lot !)

I think everyone knows by now that the withdrawal agreement keeps us following EU rules, etc, but we will be out of the EU, so we will have 'Brexited'. Most people wanted this transitional arrangement to smooth the way to our new relationship with the EU.

I do not think, for one moment, that the trade deal will take years to agree. The EU has a lot to lose without one, don't forget.

I seem to recall that you didn't expect Theresa May to get anywhere with a withdrawal agreement, and nor did you expect Boris to get rid of the backstop. Why do you think you are right this time?

Parliament has been our biggest problem in getting stuff through, not the EU. That little problem should be sorted once the election is out of the way.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I think everyone knows by now that the withdrawal agreement keeps us following EU rules, etc, but we will be out of the EU, so we will have 'Brexited'. Most people wanted this transitional arrangement to smooth the way to our new relationship with the EU.

I do not think, for one moment, that the trade deal will take years to agree. The EU has a lot to lose without one, don't forget.

I seem to recall that you didn't expect Theresa May to get anywhere with a withdrawal agreement, and nor did you expect Boris to get rid of the backstop. Why do you think you are right this time?

Parliament has been our biggest problem in getting stuff through, not the EU. That little problem should be sorted once the election is out of the way.

Errm, TM didn't get anywhere with her withdrawal agreement..... As for the backstop, ask the DUP what they think to the current proposal. - they've been sold down the river to save political careers and face in Little England. Let's hope Bozza doesn't need them in s hung parliament... He's going to be leading a very disunited kingdom..

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Errm, TM didn't get anywhere with her withdrawal agreement..... As for the backstop, ask the DUP what they think to the current proposal. - they've been sold down the river to save political careers and face in Little England. Let's hope Bozza doesn't need them in s hung parliament... He's going to be leading a very disunited kingdom..

Think even the EU are getting twitchy over Johnson's deal, as it is not in the spirit of the GFA.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Errm, TM didn't get anywhere with her withdrawal agreement..... As for the backstop, ask the DUP what they think to the current proposal. - they've been sold down the river to save political careers and face in Little England. Let's hope Bozza doesn't need them in s hung parliament... He's going to be leading a very disunited kingdom..

Actually, you are wrong again. Theresa May did get the EU's agreement to her deal and Juncker said these negotiations were at an end. It was the dead hand of Parliament that wouldn't let it through.

Then Boris came along and against all the naysayers, negotiated away the backstop. Again, it was Parliament that resisted, but then having got a vote through for the Second Reading, then failed to agree the timetable.

While the DUP may not be prepared to give the ok to Boris's deal, it will still get through a Conservative majority Parliament. Unless something goes badly wrong between now and Thursday, he should at least get a working majority this time.

---------- Post added at 13:19 ---------- Previous post was at 13:16 ----------

Originally Posted by Angua

Think even the EU are getting twitchy over Johnson's deal, as it is not in the spirit of the GFA.

Juncker and Barnier were happy with it, so it should be rubber stamped at the summit. I've not read anything from any reliable sources to suggest it won't be.