Election 2019 - Week 3

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The only time the previous Labour government was paying off the national debt was in the few years that they followed the 5 year economic plan of the previous Conservative government. Afterwards they went on a spending splurge, which at first reduced the surplus, but by 2002(ie before the crash) led to borrowing being required.
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It might easier to cut back on single spending plans like road building, but spending on things like benefit levels, tax credits are almost impossible to cut back on. Gordon Brown purposely made tax credits more generous which led to an entrenched public spending requirement.
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Not sure how not having austerity in any shape or form would lead to paying off the national debt.


From 2008
Labour's use of PFI locked in future spending for the next 30 years. Whatever government was in power would have to continue to pay those commitments.



One myth is that Labour were good on social sector house building, and the Tories bad.
Just look at the graph in the link.
The yellow section of the graph which refers to housing association(ie social sector) building is much thinner under Labour than it was pre 1997 and post 2010. I got to admit, even I was surprised by that graph, because the impression that is given is that it was the reverse, ie Labour built more. The fact is they didn't, even in the good times.

I agree.

New Labour are part of the 40 years of failure that has accumulated 2 trillion pounds of debt with no plans to pay it back. Older generations are leaving younger generations with this burden round their necks.

We need a genuine alternative to the neo-liberal capitalist status quo which has no answers for the genuine problems this country faces.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

I think you’re doing the lads a disservice here Richard. I mean they aren’t actually running the country that’s the offshore corporate interests that are funding them, Russian oligarchs or possibly even the FSB. I mean Boris did meet with them without his security detail when he was foreign secretary.

---------- Post added at 19:41 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------



More absolute nonsense. The country is already 2 trillion in debt, a figure that has doubled under the Tories in nominal terms. Despite selling off almost everything worth selling in the last forty years we are still 2 trillion in debt because of failed neo-liberal economic policies. The Tory bribe of selling people their council houses and deregulating lending to push up prices is a one off windfall.

Future generations have no such windfall. Only the debt from previous generations extravagance and poor decision making.

Pray, tell, Old Boy, how and when should we pay the 2 trillion back? How do we fund it so we can stop squandering billions on interest payments?

How many times to we have to respond to these tired old arguments, jfman? Please give it a rest.

We've already written on here countless times that Labour spent all the balances and put no money away for a rainy day during the 'golden years'. That meant we had no reserves to deal with the global financial crash. That meant we had to come up with a good plan to put the UK back on its feet and deal with the unsustainable deficit. The Conservatives have brought that down substantially, but in the meantime, debt has continued to rise as a result. This would have not happened if Labour had not spent all the reserves in its period of office and that's where the blame lies for this mess.

Do you really believe that we would be saddled with less debt had Labour been in power throught the last decade? If so, you must be the only one who does.

For someone who professes to know about economics, I am astounded that you should trot out this nonsense. The answer to paying off all that debt is certainly not to be found in the Labour camp, where hundreds of billions of pounds would be spent to satisfy their agenda. The real question is how they would pay back the debt.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

How many times to we have to respond to these tired old arguments, jfman? Please give it a rest.

We've already written on here countless times that Labour spent all the balances and put no money away for a rainy day during the 'golden years'. That meant we had no reserves to deal with the global financial crash. That meant we had to come up with a good plan to put the UK back on its feet and deal with the unsustainable deficit. The Conservatives have brought that down substantially, but in the meantime, debt has continued to rise as a result. This would have not happened if Labour had not spent all the reserves in its period of office and that's where the blame lies for this mess.

Do you really believe that we would be saddled with less debt had Labour been in power throught the last decade? If so, you must be the only one who does.

For someone who professes to know about economics, I am astounded that you should trot out this nonsense. The answer to paying off all that debt is certainly not to be found in the Labour camp, where hundreds of billions of pounds would be spent to satisfy their agenda. The real question is how they would pay back the debt.

Laughable from you Old Boy, there's no evidence at all that Conservative governments are more fiscally responsible than Labour. It was Conservative Government who squandered the windfalls of privatisation.

So how does the country pay back 2 trillion of accumulated debt from 40 years of failure?

My economic credentials are far stronger than yours here Old Boy, as you well know. Take your rose tinted glasses off and open your eyes.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

And the Tory party and their deep rooted Islamophobia issues?

Non-existent-That is Fake News.

---------- Post added at 10:58 ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Laughable from you Old Boy, there's no evidence at all that Conservative governments are more fiscally responsible than Labour. It was Conservative Government who squandered the windfalls of privatisation.

So how does the country pay back 2 trillion of accumulated debt from 40 years of failure?

My economic credentials are far stronger than yours here Old Boy, as you well know. Take your rose tinted glasses off and open your eyes.

I told you to watch your tone.

[jfman]

Tory islamophobia, a subject highlighted by a former chair of the Party is "fake news"?

Uncomfortable news maybe, but it's very real.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Laughable from you Old Boy, there's no evidence at all that Conservative governments are more fiscally responsible than Labour. It was Conservative Government who squandered the windfalls of privatisation.

So how does the country pay back 2 trillion of accumulated debt from 40 years of failure?

My economic credentials are far stronger than yours here Old Boy, as you well know. Take your rose tinted glasses off and open your eyes.

I have no words....

[Dave42]

Paul Brand

@PaulBrandITV


BREAKING: Muslim Council of Britain stands by Chief Rabbi but also tells people to vote with their conscience on Islamophobia in Tory party:

“This an issue that is particularly acute in the Conservative Party who have approached Islamophobia with denial, dismissal and deceit.”

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EKS5gVoX...jpg&name=small


both parties have big issues with racism both toxic and disastrous and I repeat I never have never will be supporter of Corbyn before people say that

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Dave42

Paul Brand

@PaulBrandITV


BREAKING: Muslim Council of Britain stands by Chief Rabbi but also tells people to vote with their conscience on Islamophobia in Tory party:

“This an issue that is particularly acute in the Conservative Party who have approached Islamophobia with denial, dismissal and deceit.”

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EKS5gVoX...jpg&name=small

Because it's directed at the Tory party it's 'fake news'

If it was directed at the Labour party however....

Originally Posted by jfman

Tory islamophobia, a subject highlighted by a former chair of the Party is "fake news"?

Uncomfortable news maybe, but it's very real.

Will still vote Tory over the Terrorist loving commie, Marxist Labour Party !!!

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

Non-existent-That is Fake News.

That's strange all the Conservative leadership candidates (including Bozzo) agreed Islamophobia was an an issue, in their little TV chat, and agreed to have an independent inquiry. We're still waiting....

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Because it's directed at the Tory party it's 'fake news'

If it was directed at the Labour party however....

The problem in the Labour Party is that anti-Semitism comes from the top and doesn't appear to be addressed.

The difference is that the Conservative Party is addressing the issue of Islamaphobia wherever it occurs and it is reported. The trouble is that some people take remarks such as those made by Boris when he talked about 'letterbox' women, ignoring the fact that he said those things to pour scorn on those men who forced their wives and daughters to dress in that way. That is more to do with men bullying women into doing their bidding than it is with religion. If you doubt that, then read the whole article instead of relying on sound bites.

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The problem in the Labour Party is that anti-Semitism comes from the top and doesn't appear to be addressed.

The difference is that the Conservative Party is addressing the issue of Islamaphobia wherever it occurs and it is reported. The trouble is that some people take remarks such as those made by Boris when he talked about 'letterbox' women, ignoring the fact that he said those things to pour scorn on those men who forced their wives and daughters to dress in that way. That is more to do with men bullying women into doing their bidding than it is with religion. If you doubt that, then read the whole article instead of relying on sound bites.

ahem take you forgot on purpose the islamophobia from Boris and he went back on enquiry promise he made live on tv both parties have very big issues with racism

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

Will still vote Tory over the Terrorist loving commie, Marxist Labour Party !!!

We get that those are your political opinions. However that doesn't make the claim of Tory Islamophobia fake news.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

That's strange all the Conservative leadership candidates (including Bozzo) agreed Islamophobia was an an issue, in their little TV chat, and agreed to have an independent inquiry. We're still waiting....

Whereas Labour continue to ignore anti-Semitism, which is a far bigger problem. The inquiry is being set up, I understand.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The problem in the Labour Party is that anti-Semitism comes from the top and doesn't appear to be addressed.

The difference is that the Conservative Party is addressing the issue of Islamaphobia wherever it occurs and it is reported. The trouble is that some people take remarks such as those made by Boris when he talked about 'letterbox' women, ignoring the fact that he said those things to pour scorn on those men who forced their wives and daughters to dress in that way. That is more to do with men bullying women into doing their bidding than it is with religion. If you doubt that, then read the whole article instead of relying on sound bites.

The actual Prime Minister has made islamophic statements. How much closer to the top do you want?