Government & Post Election Discussion

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Hugh

He didn’t call anyone racists - he was referring to Hartlepool, where the legend is that they hung a monkey because they thought it was a French spy (which is why Hartlepool residents are referred to as "monkey hangers", in the same way as Middlesbrough residents are referred to as "smog monsters").

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryU...lepool-Monkey/

Correct he didn't, Pierre didn't either, he referred to northerners not Hartlepool as being monkey hangers which is (as you point out) incorrect.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

He didn’t call anyone racists

Xenophobia, the posh way to call people racists.

I didn’t need the history lesson, I was the one that initially mentioned the hanging of monkeys in full knowledge of its historical context.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

That was only part of my post, the movement of industry to other EU countries, and the failure of Labour to save industry in their heartlands was also there.

Freedom of movement May have ended under May’s deal, but that was rejected by Parliament. So don’t what you expect the electorate to say about that. As they have no say on it.

Bitter ......maybe. Irrational.......no.

Irrational according to whom? That is a subjective position and unless you are in their position you are in no place to call anyone irrational.

If they’re concerned about industry moving to the EU how does no deal solve that over a deal?

I can easily call someone irrational if they appear to be acting against their own interests which at face value you claim, or at least haven’t proven the contrary with your historic reasons for voting leave. A deal (or none) is about the future.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

This is probably one of the reasons zero hour contracts came in, high turn over for little pay

There are two reasons why employers use zero-hour contracts as it allows them to take in staff as demand for their services fluctuates..

Also it can be used as a way of avoiding workers' rights.

[Gavin78]

Originally Posted by jfman

If they’re concerned about industry moving to the EU how does no deal solve that over a deal?

I can easily call someone irrational if they appear to be acting against their own interests which at face value you claim, or at least haven’t proven the contrary with your historic reasons for voting leave. A deal (or none) is about the future.

I don't think Brexit is the issue, it's to do with tax, pay rates and working hours. These companies where probably already on the move anyway brexit is just an excuse.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

Maybe because large areas of low paid jobs like manufacturing have been taken over by Europeans pushing out local workers looking for work.

Companies will always try to lower their wage bill if they can and if that means employing more from outside the UK they will have no hesitation in doing that.

[Gavin78]

Originally Posted by denphone

There are two reasons why employers use zero-hour contracts as it allows them to take in staff as demand for their services fluctuates..

Also it can be used as a way of avoiding workers' rights.

So basically as I said this is why you get a lot of Europeans working in large numbers for these kinds of jobs now.

Of course it's not just them you do get a lot of Asians as well.

the point being having worked in this kind of industry for years it's pushing out local people who are either claiming benefits trying to find a stable job or pushing them further moving out of the area trying to find work elsewhere

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

If they’re concerned about industry moving to the EU how does no deal solve that over a deal?

They’re past concerned, they’re royally pissed off. They’re less concerned about losing anymore industry, god knows there’s little left.

They’re more hopeful of industry returning under Brexit. Deal or no deal, just Brexit.

I can easily call someone irrational

agreed, certainly doesn’t make you correct

if they appear to be acting against their own interests

And you are a custodian of their interests? You know what’s best for them?

My dear JFman this is the very same arrogant bollocks that our Parliament is currently displaying, and look where they are, especially in the eyes of a large number of the electorate

at least haven’t proven the contrary with your historic reasons for voting leave.

Do some more research, and educate yourself. Know your past, fix your future.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

So basically as I said this is why you get a lot of Europeans working in large numbers for these kinds of jobs now.

The fault does not lie with Europeans coming over here for work as the fault lies with companies who are prepared to undercut what they paid UK employees previously.

---------- Post added at 18:42 ---------- Previous post was at 18:41 ----------

Originally Posted by Gavin78

Of course it's not just them you do get a lot of Asians as well.

The same sentiment still applies.

---------- Post added at 18:45 ---------- Previous post was at 18:42 ----------

Originally Posted by Gavin78

the point being having worked in this kind of industry for years it's pushing out local people who are either claiming benefits trying to find a stable job or pushing them further moving out of the area trying to find work elsewhere

And of course its very easy for certain parts of the media and their narrative they espouse to blame all our deep ills on Johnny Foreigner coming over here and taking all our jobs.

[Carth]

The place I work at is now staffed approx 70% by foreign workers

and that's just one place in the UK . . go figure

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Carth

The place I work at is now staffed approx 70% by foreign workers

and that's just one place in the UK . . go figure

And that is their fault?.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by denphone

And that is their fault?.

Has anyone said it’s Their fault?

I don’t think anyone blames any foreign national working here, doing the best they can for themselves and their families. They are blameless.

Also blameless are the U.K communities that have been affected by immigration and the demise of U.K. industry, partly due to Policies.

So who should we blame?

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Has anyone said it’s Their fault?

Certain media outlets play on the narrative its all their fault abroad and from there its very easy to propagate a exaggerated myth that those coming from abroad are to blame.

---------- Post added at 19:20 ---------- Previous post was at 19:18 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

I don’t think anyone blames any foreign national working here, doing the best they can for themselves and their families. They are blameless.

Indeed they are blameless as they have families to feed just like any of us.

---------- Post added at 19:20 ---------- Previous post was at 19:20 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

Also blameless are the U.K communities that have been affected by immigration and the demise of U.K. industry, partly due to Policies.

+1

---------- Post added at 19:24 ---------- Previous post was at 19:20 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

So who should we blame?

Politicians and some of their policies which have been deeply detrimental to many poorer communities.

And some companies who then take advantage of that by undercutting local workers by replacing them with labour that is cheaper.

Of course they are just a couple of things as l am sure you have some thoughts of your own.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by denphone

. . . And some companies who then take advantage of that by undercutting local workers by replacing them with labour that is cheaper.

Minimum wage is Minimum wage, no matter who you are or where you're from.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Thanks for this insight which also doesn’t answer the question. Unless your answer was xenophobia I suppose.

I think a lot of Brexiteers are just fed up with EU interference and just want a conventional trade deal with them, not the 'very close links' that TM had in mind.