PM Boris forms a government - Page 152

daveeb · 13-09-2019, 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

John Bercow at it again last night, seriously destroying the historic role of the Speaker. Threatening Boris, not to break the Benn law passed last week.

Brexit is breaking our Constitution and it will need absolute reform. Radical remainers have become constitutional vandals. Cobbling dodgy laws via the legislature.

The PM shouldn't need reminding not to break the law ! And there are lots of dodgy laws depending on your view point but they're still the law.

papa smurf · 13-09-2019, 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveeb

The PM shouldn't need reminding not to break the law ! And there are lots of dodgy laws depending on your view point but they're still the law.

How many of them only apply to one person?

**Chris** · 13-09-2019, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveeb

The PM shouldn't need reminding not to break the law ! And there are lots of dodgy laws depending on your view point but they're still the law.

How absurd is it, though, that “the law”, which to you and I means things like don’t steal stuff, don’t evade tax, in this case means “you must attend political negotiations and write a letter specifying that your position is X”.

What Parliament has done is something no previous Parliament has - it has attempted to use the mechanism of legislation to manage the specific actions of government. What it has done is constitutionally extremely difficult and it does nobody any favours for Parliament’s supporters to pretend that this piece of legislation is qualitatively similar to the criminal law the rest of us (usually) obey with little reservation.

There is a very ancient convention that says that parliament legislates and the government governs. Parliament is here attempting to govern, and in the long run its decision to use its legislative powers in this way, just because it could, might yet prove to be extremely destabilising. Just look at the belligerent briefings that keep coming out of No.10. We are heading for a clash of epic proportions and it seems destined to end up in the Supreme Court right at the moment when in previous times a scandal half this bad would naturally have put the matter back to the people via a general election.

Make no mistake we are in an enormous mess, whose consequences will be felt for decades.

OLD BOY · 13-09-2019, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveeb

The PM shouldn't need reminding not to break the law ! And there are lots of dodgy laws depending on your view point but they're still the law.

The PM did not ask nor did he need to be reminded.

daveeb · 13-09-2019, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

How absurd is it, though, that “the law”, which to you and I means things like don’t steal stuff, don’t evade tax, in this case means “you must attend political negotiations and write a letter specifying that your position is X”.

What Parliament has done is something no previous Parliament has - it has attempted to use the mechanism of legislation to manage the specific actions of government. What it has done is constitutionally extremely difficult and it does nobody any favours for Parliament’s supporters to pretend that this piece of legislation is qualitatively similar to the criminal law the rest of us (usually) obey with little reservation.

There is a very ancient convention that says that parliament legislates and the government governs. Parliament is here attempting to govern, and in the long run its decision to use its legislative powers in this way, just because it could, might yet prove to be extremely destabilising. Just look at the belligerent briefings that keep coming out of No.10. We are heading for a clash of epic proportions and it seems destined to end up in the Supreme Court right at the moment when in previous times a scandal half this bad would naturally have put the matter back to the people via a general election.

Make no mistake we are in an enormous mess, whose consequences will be felt for decades.

Absolutely agree. And yes the speaker is using his powers in ways not seen before but then again so is the PM. it's extraordinary times we're seeing.

OLD BOY · 13-09-2019, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveeb

Absolutely agree. And yes the speaker is using his powers in ways not seen before but then again so is the PM. it's extraordinary times we're seeing.

Yes, the PM prorogued Parliament for the conference season and Queen's Speech. Big deal!

**Hugh** · 13-09-2019, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Yes, the PM prorogued Parliament for the conference season and Queen's Speech. Big deal!

And by pure concidence, it also made sure the Government's Brexit plans couldn't be scrutinised.

Phew - that was lucky...

papa smurf · 13-09-2019, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

And by pure concidence, it also made sure the Government's Brexit plans couldn't be scrutinised.

Phew - that was lucky...

I thought they didn't have any plans apart from leave on oct31

**Damien** · 13-09-2019, 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Yes, the PM prorogued Parliament for the conference season and Queen's Speech. Big deal!

You know full well why it was an issue just as we know full well why Parliament is setting dangerous precedents. We are argue about the mortality of it all but for all of us to pretend this is all normal and parrot the spin of politicians does us no good.

**Mick** · 13-09-2019, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

And by pure concidence, it also made sure the Government's Brexit plans couldn't be scrutinised.

Phew - that was lucky...

Yes, so lucky, the same treacherous MPs on the opposition benches have had 3 years to scrutinise...

Julian · 13-09-2019, 20:11

If there are so many MPs against Brexit why haven't they just voted to revoke A50?

At least that would be an honest way of achieving their goal rather than paralysing parliament........

**Damien** · 13-09-2019, 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian

If there are so many MPs against Brexit why haven't they just voted to revoke A50?

At least that would be an honest way of achieving their goal rather than paralysing parliament........

Because few want to do it either for moral reasons (referendum) or political reasons (they'll be voted out).

The current collection of no dealers are:

People who would revoke Article 50 right now (Lib Dems/Greens)
People who want a second referendum (Lib Dems/Greens/Labour)
Politicians who want Brexit over with either way but at no political cost to themselves. (Corbyn)
People who want Brexit but with a Deal (Roy Stewart and some others)

**Hugh** · 13-09-2019, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

Yes, so lucky, the same treacherous MPs on the opposition benches have had 3 years to scrutinise...

BJ has only been in power for a couple of months?

If you’re talking about the previous plans, didn’t the ERG/BJ vote against those plans - does that make them treacherous?

Sephiroth · 13-09-2019, 23:01

Most of Parliament voted against the previous plans.

jfman · 14-09-2019, 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Most of Parliament voted against the previous plans.

Does that make them treacherous?