PM Boris forms a government

Originally Posted by pip08456

As expected.

Who’s going to tell the only person who has the power to prorogue to undo prorogued Parliament by the time the appeal hearing even starts?

Judicial Review won’t undo Prorogation, they may wrangle it and say Parliament has a role, but it has to be sitting to have a vote on it and it won’t be on 17th, because someone has to tell the Queen to undo the Prorogation and by this time, we’re entering the realms of manifest absurdity.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

You have to wonder why Ireland is being so awkward.
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If deliveries of food get delayed, doesn't that also apply to medicines?

Why aren't they anxious to get things sorted out.

Presumably the EU have a plan to fly in medicines.

Yes the UK could do that, but it’d cause increased customs delays at airports. Something Ireland wouldn’t have.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Damien

Parliament passing a "law" that is 100% unachievable is way beyond unconstitutional.
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Well, Mr Johnson will have until 19 October to either pass a deal in Parliament or get MPs to approve a no-deal Brexit.

As I've pointed out, a deal cannot even start to be negotiated until after we've left. Even then is takes time to properly scrutinise anything.

---------- Post added at 12:02 ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Presumably the EU have a plan to fly in medicines.

Yes the UK could do that, but it’d cause increased customs delays at airports. Something Ireland wouldn’t have.

The plan is for the UK to fly in short shelf life medicines. Panic over.
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Mr Connolly said any delay in that chain has a knock-on effect, adding that “80% of the drugs on my shelf came through the UK, be it through packaging, transport, or manufacturing”.
...
“Ireland has had access to the pharma market by piggybacking on the UK. Having some 60m people next door who speak the same language has been beneficial,” said Mr Connolly.
"If manufacturers have to produce different batches, or packaging, or marketing material for Ireland and that drives up costs, they might decide not to bother if they think it won’t pay them to do it.”

[denphone]

Boris Johnson hires influential Conservative writer Tim Montgomerie to be his social justice adviser.

https://www.ft.com/world/uk/politics

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-live-newsbior

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The plan is for the UK to fly in short shelf life medicines. Panic over.
Link

You’ll be unsurprised that I’m sceptical.

Ireland, with its lower population, will presumably need less.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Parliament certainly don't seem to be bothered about playing fast and loose with the constitution? But I agree, unlikely.




Again I agree, if we return with a Brexit focused government, with a majority, the Benn Bill could be overturned anyway. If we don't get a government with a working majority with all MPs in line, then we will just have more of the same.

And just to prove that making predictions in this climate is a mug’s game, the Opposition parties are signaling that they will vote down Monday’s attempt to call an election as well.

We really are through the looking glass now. Corbyn’s main job as leader of the opposition is to want, demand, and be ready for an election. Yet he prefers to keep an unworkable government in place and deny the people their say.

Now I wonder what the counter-move is. I’m not ready to believe Cummings was allowed to march the government into this without a strategy with contingencies worked right through to the end.

Originally Posted by Chris

Now I wonder what the counter-move is. I’m not ready to believe Cummings was allowed to march the government into this without a strategy with contingencies worked right through to the end.

Given how things have gone so far I am not so convinced everything is doing to plan nor that the Tories did due diligence on what his plan was. There is apparently rather wide-spread discontentment amount the Parliamentary Tory Party about the withdrawal of the whip for example .

Possible flaws would be that he didn't think the Opposition Parties would be this organised nor that they would want to delay the election. He might have thought they would waste a week of time trying to find a Parliamentary workaround to being prologued rather than focus on Brexit and didn't take into account that prologuing would unite the opposition.

He could call a no-confidence vote in himself but the effect of withdrawing the whip from those Tories means that even with Labour rebels such as Hoey they are far short of even a simply majority.

He could resign. Get the Queen to send for Corbyn. Let him request an extension and then fight the election on a 'coup' style narrative.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

You’ll be unsurprised that I’m sceptical.

Ireland, with its lower population, will presumably need less.

It will still need them. How do other EU countries cope with long distances?


The ongoing claims about non-availability of radioisotopes is linked to Euratom, a separate organisation from the EU.

But

The government's answer to this is that medical isotopes are not fissile nuclear material - that is, capable of reacting - so they are not subject to international nuclear safeguards. According to Science Minister Jo Johnson, their availability "should not be impacted by the UK's exit from Euratom".

The UK joined Euratom when it joined the EEC in 1973. It is a separate legal entity from the EU, but is tied up with its laws and institutions, and subject to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice (ECJ). No country is a full member of Euratom without being a member of the EU.
...
The second reason for quitting Euratom is the government's interpretation of the Brexit result. Vote Leave campaigned to restore British sovereignty and "take back control" by ending the supremacy of EU law over domestic law.
In her speech to the Conservative Party conference in October, Theresa May made this rather more specific, pledging to ensure "the authority of EU law in this country ended forever". This stance has been called the "ECJ red line" - in other words stopping the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg having any authority in the UK.
...


Dominic Cummings, who was campaign director of Vote Leave, this week criticised what he called "government morons" who want to withdraw from Euratom. "Tory Party keeps making huge misjudgements re what the REF was about. EURATOM was different treaties, ECJ role no signif problem," he said on Twitter.

Given that Euratom was explicitly mentioned in the Article 50 letter, any reversal of withdrawal would be difficult, and an act of Parliament would probably not be enough.

The idiot May is solely responsible for all that.

What's more, staying in the nuclear agreement would not be a matter purely for the UK to decide. The EU, which has published a position paper on Britain's departure from Euratom, would also have to agree. That could make things complicated.Various options have been mooted for an alternative to full Euratom membership. Switzerland, not an EU member, has a special status as an equal partner as an "associated country". This could be an option explored by the UK. But sticking to the ECJ red line might make that path difficult.

The EU being obstructive yet again?

On the date of withdrawal, the Treaties, including the Treaty establishing the European Atomic Energy Community (the "Treaty" and the "Community"), cease to apply to the United Kingdom.
The United Kingdom is a member of the International Atomic Energy Agency ("IAEA") and bound by international conventions to which it is a party in its own right. From the withdrawal date, the United Kingdom will have sole responsibility for ensuring its compliance with international obligations arising therefrom.

So is this all part of the nonsense that is Project Fear?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Chris

And just to prove that making predictions in this climate is a mug’s game, the Opposition parties are signaling that they will vote down Monday’s attempt to call an election as well.

We really are through the looking glass now. Corbyn’s main job as leader of the opposition is to want, demand, and be ready for an election. Yet he prefers to keep an unworkable government in place and deny the people their say.

Now I wonder what the counter-move is. I’m not ready to believe Cummings was allowed to march the government into this without a strategy with contingencies worked right through to the end.

I think the best option for Boris now is to ask the Queen to extend the prorogation from today until November on the grounds that the opposition have made it impossible to govern. Therefore, there is no point in the Commons sitting.

I can't see the Government being able to conduct business with the other parties simply voting everything down, can you?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

Given how things have gone so far I am not so convinced everything is doing to plan nor that the Tories did due diligence on what his plan was. There is apparently rather wide-spread discontentment amount the Parliamentary Tory Party about the withdrawal of the whip for example .

Boris took on the leadership, with a majority of 1 or 2, and a team full of rebels. He knew what he was taking on. So I would hope anticipated a few things.

One thing he has managed to eliminate, should he get back in power after an election, is the rebel faction.

Possible flaws would be that he didn't think the Opposition Parties would be this organised nor that they would want to delay the election. He might have thought they would waste a week of time trying to find a Parliamentary workaround to being prologued rather than focus on Brexit and didn't take into account that prologuing would unite the opposition.

that and Corbyn wimping out on an election.

He could call a no-confidence vote in himself but the effect of withdrawing the whip from those Tories means that even with Labour rebels such as Hoey they are far short of even a simply majority.

he would have to instruct his MPs not to vote.

He could resign. Get the Queen to send for Corbyn. Let him request an extension and then fight the election on a 'coup' style narrative.

can’t imagine that.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

And just to prove that making predictions in this climate is a mug’s game, the Opposition parties are signaling that they will vote down Monday’s attempt to call an election as well.

We really are through the looking glass now. Corbyn’s main job as leader of the opposition is to want, demand, and be ready for an election. Yet he prefers to keep an unworkable government in place and deny the people their say.

Now I wonder what the counter-move is. I’m not ready to believe Cummings was allowed to march the government into this without a strategy with contingencies worked right through to the end.

Not quite accurate. Should be:

Corbyn’s main job as leader of the opposition is to want, demand, and be ready for an election at a time when he thinks he has the best chance of winning

Also, Cummings had no strategy & contingencies for Vote Leave so don't be surprised if he does not have one now.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Not quite accurate. Should be:



Also, Cummings had no strategy & contingencies for Vote Leave so don't be surprised if he does not have one now.

l suspect he has got a strategy but whether its working remains open to question.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Damien

Different order entirely to trying to get the Queen to dissolve Parliament and break the Fixed Terms Parliament Act.

You cannot show this to be fact.

Originally Posted by pip08456

You cannot show this to be fact.

What to be fact? The PM can't just call an election under the FTPA. If he went to the Queen to demand one and she went ahead with it then it would be against the act.

---------- Post added at 13:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:33 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

that and Corbyn wimping out on an election.
.

And the opposition too. I think the degree of cooperation and organisation of the opposition parties is probably the most surprising thing. They probably didn't think Labour wouldn't turn down an election but even if they did could get a law passed for one on the back of SNP/Liberal votes.

[pip08456]

He cannot demand one of the Queen and cannot hold an election without 2/3 agreement under the FTPA.

As I said you are making things up. Unless of course you can prove otherwise.