PM Boris forms a government

[denphone]

Originally Posted by ianch99

He has seen the rise of Blue Momentum and has had enough. Good on him.

So we have Red Momentum on one side and Blue Momentum on the other. Johnson is pushing through the demise of the Tory party as was so there is an up side to all of this. In the same way, the Labour of old was taken over by radicals & activists, the Tory party has gone the same way.

We just need someone with a modest amount of talent and no baggage to sweep up the vacant centre ground. It is a political open goal at the moment.

.. orders more popcorn ...

So here we have it on one side If we do get this general election which seems increasingly likely then its Boris Johnson thugs against Jeremy Corbyn and his thugs , What a impossibly poor choice to have to make!!!!

Originally Posted by jfman

It's compelling viewing. That and a recession house price collapse is all good news for anyone that enjoys chaos.

A house price collapse is unavoidable at some point. Houses are meant for living in, not investments. As the Boomer influence at the ballot box wanes, so will the imperative to chase the votes of those with the most capital tied up in housing.

As far as chaos goes, well so far the chaos has spread no further than the Westminster bubble, and they’re quite welcome to it. For most of the last 20 years our politics has been anodyne and centrist, managerial in nature and lacking in conviction. We at last have new dividing lines that have forced our politicians to decide which side of the house they’re on and we have a very clear choice between Corbyn and Johnson.

All other predictions of chaos are, and remain until proven otherwise, nothing more than the wet dreams of remainers who still don’t accept they lost the referendum.

---------- Post added at 16:53 ---------- Previous post was at 16:50 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

He has seen the rise of Blue Momentum and has had enough. Good on him.

So we have Red Momentum on one side and Blue Momentum on the other.

These sound like supermarket own-brand caffeine/energy drinks At a guess, the blue one’s in Sainsbury’s and the red one is in Morrisons.

Originally Posted by Pierre

I think an election is absolutely inevitable and now necessary.

Then all those conservatives that don't wish to stand under Johnson, and his Brexit manifesto, can do the honourable thing and decline to stand and al those that defected to Lib-Dems or as independents can stand again against a new conservative candidate, and put their case to the electorate.

Corbyn has done nothing but demand another election since 2017, so if one was offered it would be amazing if he didn't back it.

So that should apply to the ERG and those who voted against May?

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by Hugh

So that should apply to the ERG and those who voted against May?

exactly total hypocrites the lot of them

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I think an election is absolutely inevitable and now necessary.

Then all those conservatives that don't wish to stand under Johnson, and his Brexit manifesto, can do the honourable thing and decline to stand and al those that defected to Lib-Dems or as independents can stand again against a new conservative candidate, and put their case to the electorate.

Corbyn has done nothing but demand another election since 2017, so if one was offered it would be amazing if he didn't back it.

It would seem any democratic votes are fair game to be ignored and overturned. Or does that depend on how the vote goes? People voted NO to Remain.

There ISN'T a deal on the table to accept or refuse. At most is a DELAY of just over a year. Anything that is supposed to happen on Nov 1st 2019, would happen anyway on Jan 1st 2021.

The hypocrites are the ones that say "no to no deal" when there isn't a deal as an alternative, and even said no to the Withdrawal Agreement.

How on earth can you say "no to no X", when there is no X? Just not possible.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

So that should apply to the ERG and those who voted against May?

Is May currently the PM? Did May call a GE? keep drinking the cool aid.

IIRC many of the ERG including JRM, did eventually compromise and reluctantly vote for May's deal.

If there is an election, there will be a manifesto. Depending what is in that manifesto, Tory candidates can decide if they want to stand up for it.

---------- Post added at 17:30 ---------- Previous post was at 17:24 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

It would seem any democratic votes are fair game to be ignored and overturned. Or does that depend on how the vote goes? People voted NO to Remain.

There ISN'T a deal on the table to accept or refuse. At most is a DELAY of just over a year. Anything that is supposed to happen on Nov 1st 2019, would happen anyway on Jan 1st 2021.

The hypocrites are the ones that say "no to no deal" when there isn't a deal as an alternative, and even said no to the Withdrawal Agreement.

How on earth can you say "no to no X", when there is no X? Just not possible.

No to No deal is a complete Red Herring.

It is Remain, an extension means nothing.

The Withdrawl Agreement has been comprehensively rejected by Parliament, no other deal is on offer.

An election is required in order to return a government that has a majority and united under a manifesto that promises to Leave with or without a deal.

It is a massive risk, another hung parliament is very probable.

The difference this time around however is.

a) the Brexit Party
b) a resurgent Lib Dems

---------- Post added at 17:40 ---------- Previous post was at 17:30 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Philip Hammonds constituency have just 'confirmed his reselection'. So Tory HQ will have to override his constituency party and force someone else into the seat to deselect him (which I believe they have to power to do)

Just been confirmed on Sky news that if Hammond, or anyone, votes against the government they will lose the whip and will not be allowed to stand as a conservative candidate in an election, regardless.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

A house price collapse is unavoidable at some point. Houses are meant for living in, not investments. As the Boomer influence at the ballot box wanes, so will the imperative to chase the votes of those with the most capital tied up in housing.

As far as chaos goes, well so far the chaos has spread no further than the Westminster bubble, and they’re quite welcome to it. For most of the last 20 years our politics has been anodyne and centrist, managerial in nature and lacking in conviction. We at last have new dividing lines that have forced our politicians to decide which side of the house they’re on and we have a very clear choice between Corbyn and Johnson.

All other predictions of chaos are, and remain until proven otherwise, nothing more than the wet dreams of remainers who still don’t accept they lost the referendum.

---------- Post added at 16:53 ---------- Previous post was at 16:50 ----------



These sound like supermarket own-brand caffeine/energy drinks At a guess, the blue one’s in Sainsbury’s and the red one is in Morrisons.

I'd say the currency collapse is a reality, not a wet dream.

Interesting...

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Interesting...

But they’re true believers, Hugh. 75% of May’s team were remainers

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Interesting...

Not really.

If you know what you want and what your prepared give, you only need a team of 1.

Originally Posted by Pierre

No to No deal is a complete Red Herring.

It is Remain, an extension means nothing.

The Withdrawl Agreement has been comprehensively rejected by Parliament, no other deal is on offer.

With this though....

I am a Remainer and I wanted May's Deal to pass. It wasn't perfect at all and much of it left me unhappy. It wasn't EEA for example.

But it wasn't No Deal. It gave us a two year period to get something else in place, and we'll eventually have to deal with the EU first anyway, and it gave some degree of confidence to the country. It helps us move on a bit too.

I hope Boris Johnson gets some, even cosmetic, details on the backstop that gets the deal though.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Not really.

If you know what you want and what your prepared give, you only need a team of 1.

Only if you intend to fail...


Not been part of major multi-billion negotiations, have you?

It’s not like asking for 10% discount for cash in Currys...

Originally Posted by Pierre

Not really.

If you know what you want and what your prepared give, you only need a team of 1.

There was also the story from The Telegraph, hardly a Remainer paper, saying that Cummings said the talks are 'a sham'. Denied by No 10 but then why would The Telegraph of all papers lie about this and they claim to have multiple sources? It fits with the story about reducing the team and in the end if they had another idea for the backstop they could tell us.

They don't have another idea. Because there isn't one. If you don't have a customs union or agreement of some sort then there has to be a border with another country. That's it. There isn't any technological solution out there yet. People can say 'blockchain', 'AI' and 'the cloud' as much as they like but none of that tells us how you get around the prospect of regulatory divergence in a region there you want products to flow back and forth unchecked.

Therefore the Government must, just has to have, one of the following planned:

1. A Deal before October 31st or be 'forced' into an extention
2. A border in Ireland
3. A border in the Irish Sea
4. An unchecked border which would be a customs union essentally

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

With this though....

I am a Remainer and I wanted May's Deal to pass. It wasn't perfect at all and much of it left me unhappy. It wasn't EEA for example.

But it wasn't No Deal. It gave us a two year period to get something else in place, and we'll eventually have to deal with the EU first anyway, and it gave some degree of confidence to the country. It helps us move on a bit too.

I hope Boris Johnson gets some, even cosmetic, details on the backstop that gets the deal though.

The problem is though, that the backstop (IIRC) isn’t what Labour objected to in the deal.

Even if Boris navigates around the Backstop his problem is that Labour, if they revert to type, will just block anything that is put before them.

The only way Brexit happens is with a Government with a majority and a membership fully behind them. The only way of getting that is a GE. No guarantees though.

The funny thing is though the 2017 election, May tried to make about Brexit, but Labour made it about other issues and stole the initiative.

However, this election - if it happens will be squarely about Brexit.

---------- Post added at 21:10 ---------- Previous post was at 21:05 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Only if you intend to fail...
Not been part of major multi-billion negotiations, have you?

How many in your career of IT project management have you overseen?

It’s not like asking for 10% discount for cash in Currys...

It’s not, your right. However, if I took in - I dunno- 50,000 friends and committed to buying 50,000 UHD tv’s, IPads, and PS4’ demanded 40% discount, and said if we don’t get it I’ll go to another retailer............I reckon i’d Get a dialogue going.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Interesting...

Pretty clear that BoJo's only plan is no deal, because solving the Irish border situation has proved impossible.