PM Boris forms a government

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

This shows perfectly what we’re up against as a country.

Labour accuse the Tories of being anti-democratic..................

At least BoJo is trying to deliver what was voted for. This video just underlined how duplicitous Labour are.

https://www.facebook.com/stopthelabo...550839?sfns=mo

No one voted for a no-deal Brexit. It's duplicitous of Boris to entertain such a non-democratic notion.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

No one voted for a no-deal Brexit. It's duplicitous of Boris to entertain such a non-democratic notion.

Been through this a thousand times. Deal Brexit / no deal Brexit, along with any other descriptor was not on the ballot paper.

Just no or yes.

Boris will just be delivering on the biggest democratic mandate this country has ever given a PM.

[jfman]

52-48?

Originally Posted by jfman

52-48?

More or less.

And 48-52 would have resulted in us remaining in the EU just as emphatically. It was a referendum with a binary question, no quorum and no supermajority required. As we have been over many, many times.

Incidentally, the reason the team is allowing Brexit discussion here is because for the most part it is presently relevant to Boris Johnson’s “new broom” approach to government and Brexit.

We aren’t about to allow the thread to collapse into endless pointless repetition of all the old, old arguments about the legitimacy of the referendum, the mandate afforded by the result or whether “nobody voted for X”.

So let’s try and keep things on track, please.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

More or less.

And 48-52 would have resulted in us remaining in the EU just as emphatically. It was a referendum with a binary question, no quorum and no supermajority required. As we have been over many, many times.

Incidentally, the reason the team is allowing Brexit discussion here is because for the most part it is presently relevant to Boris Johnson’s “new broom” approach to government and Brexit.

We aren’t about to allow the thread to collapse into endless pointless repetition of all the old, old arguments about the legitimacy of the referendum, the mandate afforded by the result or whether “nobody voted for X”.

So let’s try and keep things on track, please.

That’s fair, but to describe it as the “largest mandate afforded to a PM ever”? As you correctly point out a small swing the other way would have resulted in something entirely different happening.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

More or less.

And 48-52 would have resulted in us remaining in the EU just as emphatically. It was a referendum with a binary question, no quorum and no supermajority required. As we have been over many, many times.

Incidentally, the reason the team is allowing Brexit discussion here is because for the most part it is presently relevant to Boris Johnson’s “new broom” approach to government and Brexit.

We aren’t about to allow the thread to collapse into endless pointless repetition of all the old, old arguments about the legitimacy of the referendum, the mandate afforded by the result or whether “nobody voted for X”.

So let’s try and keep things on track, please.

If you want to "keep things on track", you and your moderator colleagues need to challenge posts where false claims are made. For example, Brexit was not the "biggest democratic mandate this country has ever given a PM". If you keep people honest then the members will not have to.

On the subject of the said Johnson Government, I am disappointed but not surprised to see what people are prepared to accept and, more, enthuse over in order to get Brexit over the line. The UK used to be a place where most people were moderate and considerate of their fellow citizens. No more, Cameron's tragic decision has turned this country into an inward looking and bitterly divided society. We are only just seeing the "rewards" of this tragedy.

We have a PM who has appointed a Rasputin-esque figure as his chief advisor who is relishing his power at No.10. Dismissing people for Thought Crimes no less. Johnson's arrogance in his ironic suspension of parliamentary democracy and the latest gem: Gove refusing to guarantee that the government will abide by any law that may be passed by Parliament.

You have the naive saying that after we Leave, the country will come together. No chance, this is just the beginning of Brexit. The only consolation is that this whole grubby fiasco will condemn the Tories to political oblivion. As the older voters shuffle off, they will be replaced by a generation who the Tories have spectacularly betrayed. They will not forget or forgive ...

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

That’s fair, but to describe it as the “largest mandate afforded to a PM ever”? As you correctly point out a small swing the other way would have resulted in something entirely different happening.

Biggest mandate by way of the number of people that voted in it.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Biggest mandate by way of the number of people that voted in it.

Nope: https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-refer...atic-exercise/

Can we just drop the "we won, you lost" crap? This stuff is just designed to wind people up. We are where we are ..

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Biggest mandate by way of the number of people that voted in it.

And an almost equally high number specifically voted the other way. However let's not get bogged down in semantics.

I'd interpret biggest mandate as an interpretation of the extent of victory, otherwise it's essentially a measure of population growth.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

If you want to "keep things on track", you and your moderator colleagues need to challenge posts where false claims are made. For example, Brexit was not the "biggest democratic mandate this country has ever given a PM". If you keep people honest then the members will not have to.

Why wasn’t it?

The referendum is in the record books as the biggest ever democratic exercise this country has ever seen?

On the subject of the said Johnson Government, I am disappointed but not surprised to see what people are prepared to accept and, more, enthuse over in order to get Brexit over the line. The UK used to be a place where most people were moderate and considerate of their fellow citizens. No more,

And you wonder, after 3 years! And the democratic decision of the biggest ever democratic exercise has not been delivered, Why that may be the case?

It seems as though if all the moderation and consideration is going your way you’ll be happy, but not willing to put your consideration towards those that actually won the decision.

Your hypocrisy is breathtaking, as is your sense of entitlement.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by jfman

And an almost equally high number specifically voted the other way. However let's not get bogged down in semantics.

I'd interpret biggest mandate as an interpretation of the extent of victory, otherwise it's essentially a measure of population growth.

Agreed, it is the % of the electorate that voted that is the true measure. Absolute numbers need to be normalised, as you say, for population size.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Nope: https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-refer...atic-exercise/

Can we just drop the "we won, you lost" crap? This stuff is just designed to wind people up. We are where we are ..

Always happy to be corrected, but from your link.

Depending on how you define a mandate, it’s reasonable to say that Brexit has the largest ever mandate given for something in the UK, as more people voted for it than any other single electoral option in British political history. 17,410,742 people voted in favour of leaving the EU in 2016, which is fractionally higher than the 17,378,581 people who voted in favour of staying in the European Community in 1975.

I’m happy to work on that basis, cheers.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Your hypocrisy is breathtaking, as is your sense of entitlement.

Bless ..

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

And an almost equally high number specifically voted the other way. However let's not get bogged down in semantics.

I'd interpret biggest mandate as an interpretation of the extent of victory, otherwise it's essentially a measure of population growth.

Your statement collapses exactly at the point you say “almost”

---------- Post added at 17:20 ---------- Previous post was at 17:19 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

Bless ..

---------- Post added at 17:21 ---------- Previous post was at 17:20 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

Agreed, it is the % of the electorate that voted that is the true measure. Absolute numbers are normalised, as you say, for population size.

I refer you to the link you referred me to

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I refer you to the link you referred me to

Agreed, the article concludes that:

Claim

The 2016 EU referendum was the largest democratic exercise in the UK’s history.

Conclusion

Not quite. More people voted in the 1992 general election. It also had a higher turnout rate, as did other elections in the 20th century.

Enough ... let's discuss Mr Johnson and Government.