PM Boris forms a government

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

I’m sure they do, but I’m quite sure nobody chooses to earn £22 000 for the sole purpose of avoiding paying back their student loans at a marginal rate of 9% of earnings above that threshold.

If the economic environment means a lot of graduates are earning below this level then that’s the general economy that’s the problem not any individual who went to uni.

You seem to be arguing with me on a point I didn't make.

Ahem!

[1andrew1]

Unfortunately, one ethos of the Boris government is to lie as this snippet in The Sunday Times illustrates.
https://mobile.twitter.com/RosamundU...67876440498177

[Sephiroth]

It would have been more accurate to restrict your observation to Gove, not Boris's government.

[Carth]

I guess if I want to keep up with the most accurate and unbiased news reporting in the universe, I'll have to get a twitter account

To be honest though, it reminds me of when my dear old mum (bless) used to stand at the garden fence swapping tittle-tattle with the neighbours

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

It would have been more accurate to restrict your observation to Gove, not Boris's government.

No, the Govermemnt's spokesman said they did not comment on leaks knowing that Gove had done exactly that. And Gove is in the Government.
But I agree it's especially poor behaviour from him as he's a clever and gifted politician who shouldnt need to act in this manner.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Ahem!

Sorry...

Originally Posted by Carth

I guess if I want to keep up with the most accurate and unbiased news reporting in the universe, I'll have to get a twitter account

To be honest though, it reminds me of when my dear old mum (bless) used to stand at the garden fence swapping tittle-tattle with the neighbours

Here you go - source material.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/w...gove-nfc2fcltp

Government spin unspun

Michael Gove: “Operation Yellowhammer is . . . planning for absolutely the worst case in the event of a no-deal Brexit”
Sir Bob Kerslake, former head of the civil service: “The document is called a ‘base case’ assessment . . . [it is] the expected case drawn from assumptions of what is most likely to happen”

Gove: “This is an old document”
The document is dated early August 2019

Gove: “There’s no return to a hard border”
Yellowhammer: “The model of limited checks at an open border is likely to prove unsustainable because of economic, legal and biosecurity risks”

The prime minister’s spokeswoman: “We don’t comment on leaks”
Gove commented on Twitter on the leak last Sunday

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You seem to be arguing with me on a point I didn't make.

Happy to have the clarification that wasn't what you meant to imply.

All I asked was clarification - Hugh in post 1350 clearly outlines why any such notion is ludicrous - so glad it was misinterpretation on my part.

[nomadking]

The people that are lying are the ones claiming there is a deal on the table. Even with the Withdrawal Agreement, "No Deal" and whatever effects it is meant to have, still happens, just later on.


If the EU are claiming a full and proper deal can be done within 30 days, then the backstop can be removed as it is not needed. In other words, they are fibbing and have no intention whatsoever in agreeing to anything.

Originally Posted by nomadking

The people that are lying are the ones claiming there is a deal on the table. Even with the Withdrawal Agreement, "No Deal" and whatever effects it is meant to have, still happens, just later on.


If the EU are claiming a full and proper deal can be done within 30 days, then the backstop can be removed as it is not needed. In other words, they are fibbing and have no intention whatsoever in agreeing to anything.

They didn’t...

https://www.thejournal.ie/boris-brex...77445-Aug2019/

What did Merkel actually say?

On the subject of finding a Brexit solution, Merkel noted that an agreement could take two years, but then she said (and these are her exact words in German):

Aber man kann sie vielleicht ja auch in den nächsten 30 Tagen finden. Warum nicht?

The Guardian translates it as: “But we can also maybe find it in the next 30 days, why not?”

But Der Spiegel (using Google translate) has it as: “But maybe you can find them in the next 30 days, why not?”

Literally the translation is ‘one’ can also find it (a solution) in the next 30 days...

We asked a translator for their professional input and were told that ‘man’ or ‘one’ can often translate as ‘you’ or ‘we’.

So, it could be assumed that Merkel kept it vague on purpose. One thing that is clear is she was not promising any significant movement from Europe in the next 30 days, only to listen to possible British alternatives to the backstop.

[Sephiroth]

I buy that.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

They didn’t...

https://www.thejournal.ie/boris-brex...77445-Aug2019/

There's still 16 months before any backstop would be due to come into play, plus the previous months, gives more than 2 years. It's still more than long enough to remove the backstop. Macron agreed with the 30 days. If Merkel and Macron can truly envisage an agreement within 30 days, they must have a solution in mind. Either they are outright lying or their solution is so unacceptable it wouldn't be accepted.


A central issue is that the backstop only ends if the EU says it can. Why wasn't that aspect front and centre in the Withdrawal Agreement and not left to just 3 words, ie "unless and until".

[jfman]

The 30 day solution is a customs union for goods.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

The 30 day solution is a customs union for goods.

So following EU rules without having a say(not that we have much of one anyway), applying EU set tariffs, obeying the EU and the ECJ, no outside trade deals allowed, having to submit to conditions of other EU trade agreements, eg Vietnam but in only one direction ie imports to UK, and all still with customs delays and massive extra costs.