PM Boris forms a government

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

... and a racist wannabe leader.

Michael Gove is another buffoon but I don't think he's a racist.... He's biding his time till it all implodes,, not long now.

There is a realistic potential for a compromise on the backstop. It would have to meet these standards:

• Allow Boris Johnson to say he has won a concession
• Allow Ireland to save face
• Avoid the prospect of a hard border in Ireland

Now I am not sure what solution that would be. In the end if standards diverge after the transition period then you need customs checks and 'blockchain' is not an answer. But you can kick that problem into the long grass with some clever wording whereby everyone understands the issue needs to be resolved without those checks and is confident it will be.

I still think it will take the form of a cleverly worded way of saying in the event of no agreement after the transition period the U.K Government gets to decide between continuing the transition or diverging without N.Ireland.

Essentially what the EU offered a year or so ago. The EU gets to say they got what they wanted - especially Ireland - and Boris got rid of the backstop. DUP might not be happy though.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Thing is, even without the backstop it's a really crap deal. It leaves us much worse off than if we stayed in the EU.

All this time and you think that has any bearing on anything?

That argument means nothing

Being that remaining will not happen

What’s your pleasure? No deal or amended deal?

Originally Posted by Pierre

All this time and you think that has any bearing on anything?

That argument means nothing

Being that remaining will not happen

What’s your pleasure? No deal or amended deal?

That’s like asking someone which leg do they want broken?*


*neither

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Pierre

All this time and you think that has any bearing on anything?

That argument means nothing

Being that remaining will not happen

What’s your pleasure? No deal or amended deal?

I'm not.wrong though am I? Deal or amended deal, we'll be worse off. That's why you, like a sensible Gent, voted to remain.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

That’s like asking someone which leg do they want broken?*


*neither

No it's not - a ridiculous comparison.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Michael Gove is another buffoon but I don't think he's a racist.... He's biding his time till it all implodes,, not long now.

He's not a buffoon, either. He is very intelligent. But also rather strange.

---------- Post added at 20:44 ---------- Previous post was at 20:39 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

There is a realistic potential for a compromise on the backstop. It would have to meet these standards:

• Allow Boris Johnson to say he has won a concession
• Allow Ireland to save face
• Avoid the prospect of a hard border in Ireland

Now I am not sure what solution that would be. In the end if standards diverge after the transition period then you need customs checks and 'blockchain' is not an answer. But you can kick that problem into the long grass with some clever wording whereby everyone understands the issue needs to be resolved without those checks and is confident it will be.

I still think it will take the form of a cleverly worded way of saying in the event of no agreement after the transition period the U.K Government gets to decide between continuing the transition or diverging without N.Ireland.

Essentially what the EU offered a year or so ago. The EU gets to say they got what they wanted - especially Ireland - and Boris got rid of the backstop. DUP might not be happy though.

The EU needs to concede that the backstop will be in place for two years or when the new trade agreement becomes operational, whichever is the earlier.

Why would that be a problem? There certainly won't be a backstop if there's a no deal.

Ireland need to get their act together and start to get real about this. Posturing won't get them anywhere. They are just a little country attempting to have their day on the world stage. If they continue like this, it will all end in tears. But it won't be the UK that's weeping.

---------- Post added at 20:48 ---------- Previous post was at 20:44 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

I'm not.wrong though am I? Deal or amended deal, we'll be worse off. That's why you, like a sensible Gent, voted to remain.

We will be worse off only if we are tied in pepetuity to the backstop.

I don't see why you have this perverse attraction to the EU. It is an appalling set-up and we will be well shot of them.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

That’s like asking someone which leg do they want broken?*


*neither

Yep, that’s where we are.

---------- Post added at 22:05 ---------- Previous post was at 21:45 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

I'm not.wrong though am I? Deal or amended deal, we'll be worse off. That's why you, like a sensible Gent, voted to remain.

I did indeed, call me a fortune teller, but I knew this would end in one almighty shat show. I’ve never been a fan of the EU and to be honest pre-referendum I didn’t even have a strong opinion on it either way. It was one of those things that was just is.

The driver behind my ire for this whole situation, is the failure to deliver a democratic decision. That I can’t abide. I’ve been on the losing side of many decisions, made by others, in my life and accepted and moved on.

I look at Hong Kong, and they are literally fighting for democracy. Yet many of us seem happy to throw it away as it suits us. That is to me disgusting.

The failure by Parliament to put aside party politics and deliver Brexit...and that is aimed directly at Corbyn, and the failure of the EU to not be the EU has just turned me into an ardent leaver.

I doubt I am alone. Probably not a massive amount but as in many elections, the silent righ
right of centre grou usually voice their opinion in the polling booth.

To think re-running the referendum would bring about a substantial turnaround to the 2016 result, I think, would be seriously mis-placed.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

He's not a buffoon, either. He is very intelligent. But also rather strange.

---------- Post added at 20:44 ---------- Previous post was at 20:39 ----------



The EU needs to concede that the backstop will be in place for two years or when the new trade agreement becomes operational, whichever is the earlier.

Why would that be a problem? There certainly won't be a backstop if there's a no deal.

Ireland need to get their act together and start to get real about this. Posturing won't get them anywhere. They are just a little country attempting to have their day on the world stage. If they continue like this, it will all end in tears. But it won't be the UK that's weeping.

---------- Post added at 20:48 ---------- Previous post was at 20:44 ----------



We will be worse off only if we are tied in pepetuity to the backstop.

I don't see why you have this perverse attraction to the EU. It is an appalling set-up and we will be well shot of them.

Oh, the irony...

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Oh, the irony...

Yes, we are small in geography it is true, but we punch above our weight and are one of the largest economies in the world.

Why do so many people in this country try and do this country down? This narrative has got to change or we will be the architects of our own downfall.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Yes, we are small in geography it is true, but we punch above our weight and are one of the largest economies in the world.

Why do so many people in this country try and do this country down? This narrative has got to change or we will be the architects of our own downfall.

You say "do this country down", other say "being realistic"...

One of the largest economies in the world is true, but we used to be the 4th largest, now we are 7th (in one measure, we are 9th)

We do punch above our weight, due to historical reasons, but the modern world is made up of economic groupings, as they carry more weight than individual countries - just look at some of the trade deals we have completed so far, which include the groupings of Central America, Andean countries, Caribbean countries, and Eastern and Southern Africa.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

You say "do this country down", other say "being realistic"...

One of the largest economies in the world is true, but we used to be the 4th largest, now we are 7th (in one measure, we are 9th)

We do punch above our weight, due to historical reasons, but the modern world is made up of economic groupings, as they carry more weight than individual countries - just look at some of the trade deals we have completed so far, which include the groupings of Central America, Andean countries, Caribbean countries, and Eastern and Southern Africa.

How much of that is the increase in countries like India and China? Internal consumption is meaningless as it is linked with size of population. Eg in the per person measure, San Marino is above us. They are not exactly an economic powerhouse. India and China don't even make the top 50.


Well over £300bn exports from rest of EU to UK is not chicken feed.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Yes, we are small in geography it is true, but we punch above our weight and are one of the largest economies in the world.

Why do so many people in this country try and do this country down? This narrative has got to change or we will be the architects of our own downfall.

As Hugh says, it's about trading blocs, not individual countries. Ireland has historically been bossed around by the UK. The roles are now more equal; some may see reversed.

---------- Post added at 13:00 ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

Well over £300bn exports from rest of EU to UK is not chicken feed.

If this was the UK, then some would be saying this provides a great opportunity to trade with the rest of the world and not confine ourselves to Europe.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

You say "do this country down", other say "being realistic"...

One of the largest economies in the world is true, but we used to be the 4th largest, now we are 7th (in one measure, we are 9th)

We do punch above our weight, due to historical reasons, but the modern world is made up of economic groupings, as they carry more weight than individual countries - just look at some of the trade deals we have completed so far, which include the groupings of Central America, Andean countries, Caribbean countries, and Eastern and Southern Africa.

And where is Ireland?

With respect, you are not being realistic, Hugh, you are being negative.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

And where is Ireland?

With respect, you are not being realistic, Hugh, you are being negative.

Ireland is being backed up the European Union, one of the biggest economic blocs in the world if not the biggest.