Brexit

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Damien

What would you call the Withdrawal Agreement then?

Merely a delay of no deal. Therefore talk of a deal having been rejected that would've prevented a no deal situation is nonsense.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't understand why anyone cares. It's a bit rude to the live performers but they got the attention they want and it works for them. Same with the t-shits, a bunch of nothing that somehow invites faux-outrage and pearl clutching.

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What would you call the Withdrawal Agreement then?

Dead

[Angua]

Canada Is Refusing To Roll Over Its EU Trade Agreement For The UK If There's A No-Deal Brexit

[ianch99]

Just what the Doctor ordered .. sounds familiar?



---------- Post added at 07:40 ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

Whereas the LibDems wearing bright yellow “bollocks to Brexit” t-shirts were so classy.

I have sympathy with their position. They didn’t stand for the EU anthem and were then chastised, being told that it is a matter of respect to stand for a “ country’s “ national anthem!

The EU is not a country, state, principality or nation. They were well within their remit to refuse to give such a political entity that has been formed without any democratic mandate such recognition.

I agree the LibDem stunt was just childish however the Brexit Party actions were just disrespectful. If you are paid to do a job, do it or resign. If they had principles, the very least they could do is not go to Strasbourg. Being the hypocrites they are, they take the money and then turn up as a political stunt. Even Sinn Féin have more principles that this lot ..

Also, where are they told to stand for the "country's" national anthem, do you have a link for this? Here's the background on the EU anthem:

https://europa.eu/european-union/abo...bols/anthem_en

The melody used to symbolize the EU comes from the Ninth Symphony composed in 1823 by Ludwig Van Beethoven, when he set music to the "Ode to Joy", Friedrich von Schiller's lyrical verse from 1785.

The anthem symbolises not only the European Union but also Europe in a wider sense. The poem "Ode to Joy" expresses Schiller's idealistic vision of the human race becoming brothers - a vision Beethoven shared.

In 1972, the Council of Europe adopted Beethoven's "Ode to Joy" theme as its anthem. In 1985, it was adopted by EU leaders as the official anthem of the European Union. There are no words to the anthem; it consists of music only. In the universal language of music, this anthem expresses the European ideals of freedom, peace and solidarity.

The European anthem is not intended to replace the national anthems of the EU countries but rather to celebrate the values they share. The anthem is played at official ceremonies involving the European Union and generally at all sorts of events with a European character.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Just what the Doctor ordered .. sounds familiar?



---------- Post added at 07:40 ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 ----------



I agree the LibDem stunt was just childish however the Brexit Party actions were just disrespectful. If you are paid to do a job, do it or resign. If they had principles, the very least they could do is not go to Strasbourg. Being the hypocrites they are, they take the money and then turn up as a political stunt. Even Sinn Féin have more principles that this lot ..

Also, where are they told to stand for the "country's" national anthem, do you have a link for this? Here's the background on the EU anthem:

https://europa.eu/european-union/abo...bols/anthem_en

Oh dear me,have we had a rough night?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

If you are paid to do a job, do it or resign. If they had principles, the very least they could do is not go to Strasbourg. Being the hypocrites they are, they take the money and then turn up as a political stunt. Even Sinn Féin have more principles that this lot

. They are there to remind the EU that the U.K. voted Leave.

Also, where are they told to stand for the "country's" national anthem, do you have a link for this? Here's the background on the EU anthem:

https://europa.eu/european-union/abo...bols/anthem_en

https://www.facebook.com/LBC/videos/...435399&sfns=mo

24 seconds in.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

. They are there to remind the EU that the U.K. voted leave.

Both parties' acts were for home supporters. The EU knows the 2016 referendum result.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Damien

The withdrawal agreement is a 'deal' which provides the transition period, covers all the legal stuff involved with that and also has a softer political declaration which gives a direction of travel for the subsequent attempts at a trade deal. The future agreement. It is a deal. It is not the final deal.

Everything else is splitting hairs.

Pushing back on a very bad deal (the WA/Political Declaration) is far from "splitting hairs".


---------- Post added at 08:34 ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

Just what the Doctor ordered .. sounds familiar?



---------- Post added at 07:40 ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 ----------



I agree the LibDem stunt was just childish however the Brexit Party actions were just disrespectful. If you are paid to do a job, do it or resign. If they had principles, the very least they could do is not go to Strasbourg. Being the hypocrites they are, they take the money and then turn up as a political stunt. Even Sinn Féin have more principles that this lot ..

Also, where are they told to stand for the "country's" national anthem, do you have a link for this? Here's the background on the EU anthem:

https://europa.eu/european-union/abo...bols/anthem_en

What are the values that the European countries share (see the link above)? Where have these been defined?

Common sense tells you what some of them ought to be - democracy, freedom, prosperity and so on.

Bur corruption is not one of the common values; dysfunction (see the current top jobs process for details) is not one of the common values; a CAP designed for France is not one of the common values; a Euro designed for Germany is not one of the common values; federalisation is not one of the common values although it is sold by the likes of Juncker as such.

If the Brexit Party MEPs want to turn their backs on the symbol of pretence that the EU is a benign and benevolent body, then good luck to them.

If the Liberal-Democrats want to emblazon "Bollocks to Brexit" on their backs, then they were made for the undemocratic EU and Bollocks to them when we leave on 31-October.

Originally Posted by nomadking

Merely a delay of no deal. Therefore talk of a deal having been rejected that would've prevented a no deal situation is nonsense.

Well it's a deal to cover a interim period whilst an actual trade deal is sorted. It would be incorrect to say this was anything other than a temporary measure but nevertheless it's still a deal. Just depends what deal you're referring too. Obviously it makes no deal less likely due to the backstop, it's the central problem of the whole thing.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Dead

That too.

---------- Post added at 08:39 ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Pushing back on a very bad deal (the WA/Political Declaration) is far from "splitting hairs".

It's splitting hairs not to call it a deal. I am not arguing the merits of it at the moment.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Bur corruption is not one of the common values

To be fair corruption probably is a common value not just with the EU but a lot of other nations too.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I agree the LibDem stunt was just childish however the Brexit Party actions were just disrespectful. If you are paid to do a job, do it or resign. If they had principles, the very least they could do is not go to Strasbourg. Being the hypocrites they are, they take the money and then turn up as a political stunt. Even Sinn Féin have more principles that this lot ..

Also, where are they told to stand for the "country's" national anthem, do you have a link for this? Here's the background on the EU anthem:

https://europa.eu/european-union/abo...bols/anthem_en

The only thing Sinn Féin don't do is swear allegiance to the Crown. No different to not acknowledging an anthem. Sinn Féin get paid salaries, claim expenses, and even visit the Houses of Parliament. They just don't enter the chamber itself.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The withdrawal agreement deal is the one agreed between Theresa May and the EU.

But that isn't a trade agreement!!

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Damien

Well it's a deal to cover a interim period whilst an actual trade deal is sorted. It would be incorrect to say this was anything other than a temporary measure but nevertheless it's still a deal. Just depends what deal you're referring too. Obviously it makes no deal less likely due to the backstop, it's the central problem of the whole thing.


It's splitting hairs not to call it a deal. I am not arguing the merits of it at the moment.

There isn't a proposed deal to put to the electorate in a 2nd referendum. There isn't a proposed deal that takes us into the future. There is nothing that can be accepted or rejected.


The word "deal" only appears once in the 599 pages of the Withdrawal Agreement.

(i) requests in accordance with Article 39 of the Schengen Implementing Convention that
are received before the end of the transition period by the central body responsible in
the Contracting Party for international police cooperation or by competent authorities of
the requested Party, or by requested police authorities which do not have the power to
deal with the request, but which forward the request to the competent authorities;

Originally Posted by nomadking

There isn't a proposed deal to put to the electorate in a 2nd referendum. There isn't a proposed deal that takes us into the future. There is nothing that can be accepted or rejected.


The word "deal" only appears once in the 599 pages of the Withdrawal Agreement.

'Agreement' itself is a synonym for deal.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Damien

'Agreement' itself is a synonym for deal.

The title of the Agreement is:-

Agreement on the withdrawal of
the United Kingdom of Great Britain
and Northern Ireland from the
European Union and the European
Atomic Energy Community,

Nothing about avoiding a no deal situation in the near future. There is NO current or previous option to avoid an eventual no deal situation. All current paths lead to no deal. Even if the WA had been fully approved, there would still end up being a no deal situation.

[papa smurf]

How is it an agreement or deal when it has been rejected 3 times ?

it's a failed proposal.