Brexit

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Will that stand in the way of his rise to power?

Logic, reason and common sense? Probably not, given the electorate involved....

Comrade Corbyn is loving all this, Boris is also his route to power.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Logic, reason and common sense? Probably not, given the electorate involved....

Comrade Corbyn is loving all this, Boris is also his route to power.

In which case, he is deluded.*

Of all the candidates vying to be PM to replace Theresa May, it is Boris who is most likely to win over Labour voters. If Boris becomes PM (which is now a foregone conclusion), the Conservative Party will rise again and Labour will be nowhere to be seen. Provided, of course, that Brexit is delivered.



*But we already knew that, didn't we?

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

In which case, he is deluded.*

Of all the candidates vying to be PM to replace Theresa May, it is Boris who is most likely to win over Labour voters. If Boris becomes PM (which is now a foregone conclusion), the Conservative Party will rise again and Labour will be nowhere to be seen. Provided, of course, that Brexit is delivered.



*But we already knew that, didn't we?

totally disagree OB Boris most likely to win labour votes when he only for the rich like his tax plan and cliff edge Brexit he one that will destroy the tories for very long time he be Corbyn's best weapon in getting power and you know I no fan of Corbyn both be a disaster for UK

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Dave42

totally disagree OB Boris most likely to win labour votes when he only for the rich like his tax plan and cliff edge Brexit he one that will destroy the tories for very long time he be Corbyn's best weapon in getting power and you know I no fan of Corbyn both be a disaster for UK

The Conservative Party is not only for the rich, and nor is Boris, although that is what Labour would like you to believe.

The issue abuut Boris's proposal regarding the higher rate of tax simply re-sets the position to where it was when the higher tax rate was introduced. This happens more regularly with other taxes (for example the minimum wage, which is increased annually) and it is long overdue.

You may not be aware, but when tax rates for higher earners is reduced, it tends to bring in more income for the treasury and so there is no case for leaving these rates as they are.

A Brexit without a deal would not be a disaster. That is just hype based on forecasts which take into account only the downsides without giving credit for the upsides. The result is unduly pessimistic forecasts, which is no surprise, surely?

Corbyn would totally ruin the economy, and the poor would be the first to suffer. Could you manage with the rampant inflation that would be caused by the excessive money printing programme he would have implemented for his ridiculous spending projects? That would be just the start, believe me. The money makers would invest their dosh elsewhere and emigrate. So there would be little investment and Corbyn would boast that he had abolished the rich in this country. Then he would find that tax income had slumped and so tax rates for everyone (including those currently not taxed under Conservative policies) would rise substantially. Everyone still living in the UK would end up poorer (except the Westminster elite and their hangers on) and Corbyn would say he had achieved pay equality outside his little bubble.

The Conservatives have received a bad press as a result of the austerity measures introduced to avoid the bankruptcy we were headed towards after the Blair/Brown mismanagement of the economy over 13 years, which saw Gordon Brown plunder our gold reserves, steal money from our pension schemes and squander it all with not much to show for it..

However, the end of austerity is now with us, and you will soon see what the Conservatives can do to help the poor. If they get another term at the end of this Parliament with a decent majority, you will see what I mean by that.

The best man for that job is Boris, because he can deliver Brexit and he can get the votes from the electorate.

You'll see.

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The Conservative Party is not only for the rich, and nor is Boris, although that is what Labour would like you to believe.

The issue abuut Boris's proposal regarding the higher rate of tax simply re-sets the position to where it was when the higher tax rate was introduced. This happens more regularly with other taxes (for example the minimum wage, which is increased annually) and it is long overdue.

You may not be aware, but when tax rates for higher earners is reduced, it tends to bring in more income for the treasury and so there is no case for leaving these rates as they are.

A Brexit without a deal would not be a disaster. That is just hype based on forecasts which take into account only the downsides without giving credit for the upsides. The result is unduly pessimistic forecasts, which is no surprise, surely?

Corbyn would totally ruin the economy, and the poor would be the first to suffer. Could you manage with the rampant inflation that would be caused by the excessive money printing programme he would have implemented for his ridiculous spending projects? That would be just the start, believe me. The money makers would invest their dosh elsewhere and emigrate. So there would be little investment and Corbyn would boast that he had abolished the rich in this country. Then he would find that tax income had slumped and so tax rates for everyone (including those currently not taxed under Conservative policies) would rise substantially. Everyone still living in the UK would end up poorer (except the Westminster elite and their hangers on) and Corbyn would say he had achieved pay equality outside his little bubble.

The Conservatives have received a bad press as a result of the austerity measures introduced to avoid the bankruptcy we were headed towards after the Blair/Brown mismanagement of the economy over 13 years, which saw Gordon Brown plunder our gold reserves, steal money from our pension schemes and squander it all with not much to show for it..

However, the end of austerity is now with us, and you will soon see what the Conservatives can do to help the poor. If they get another term at the end of this Parliament with a decent majority, you will see what I mean by that.

The best man for that job is Boris, because he can deliver Brexit and he can get the votes from the electorate.

You'll see.

"Significant damage to the economy" doesn't seem to bother the the majority of current Tory party members, depending on what they're getting in return of course.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The Conservatives have received a bad press as a result of the austerity measures introduced to avoid the bankruptcy we were headed towards after the Blair/Brown mismanagement of the economy over 13 years, which saw Gordon Brown plunder our gold reserves, steal money from our pension schemes and squander it all with not much to show for it..

However, the end of austerity is now with us, and you will soon see what the Conservatives can do to help the poor. If they get another term at the end of this Parliament with a decent majority, you will see what I mean by that.

I agree with you on Corbyn but austerity hasn't been a great success. We're still running deficits, our economy has been stagnant and some people have had to bare a disproportionate amount of the burden for it.

In retrospect we would probably have done better to have copied the example from America where they had a massive stimulus package to try and boost the economy. Compare the 2008-2018 performance of the U.S. Economy to our own. Obviously that's speculative, there is no way to know for sure, but austerity wasn't the answer either.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I see that Boris's daft GATT 24 claims have failed the Factchecker!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48685344

Strange that when Czechoslovakia split up, they had no problem with GATT 24.

---------- Post added at 21:24 ---------- Previous post was at 21:22 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

But the Canada style deal excludes services:

https://www.ft.com/content/30705bfc-...2-916d4fbac0da



Brexit Britain faces services squeeze with Canada-style deal

The clue is in the word "style". That doesn't mean exactly the same.

---------- Post added at 21:27 ---------- Previous post was at 21:24 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Business is largely against Brexit so you can say that Brexit is more left-wing than right-wing. Indeed, we heard one infamous Brexiter say "F-business".

What you repeatedly fail to recognise is that no-deal means what it says. It doesn't mean a different type of deal or a cake-and-eat-it deal.

If you read the serious business analysis around Brexit, you will understand that the EU doesn't want to undermine the integrity of the single market and needs to demonstrate that it will stand by its smaller members.

https://www.ft.com/content/50a31434-...d-b42f641eca37

It wasn't meant as "I don't care about business", it was a "I don't care what the whinging Remainers say".

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Strange that when Czechoslovakia split up, they had no problem with GATT 24.

We're talking about a no-deal situation between the EU and the UK. Not a deal situation between Slovakia and the Czech Republic

It wasn't meant as "I don't care about business", it was a "I don't care what the whinging Remainers say".

It was quite clear what he meant. His subsequent backpedalling when campaigning to be CP leader was a sensible ploy.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by daveeb

"Significant damage to the economy" doesn't seem to bother the the majority of current Tory party members, depending on what they're getting in return of course.

That's because the Conservatives by and large don't buy the argument that there would be significant damage to the economy if we had a no 'Withdrawal Deal' Brexit.

---------- Post added at 07:36 ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

I agree with you on Corbyn but austerity hasn't been a great success. We're still running deficits, our economy has been stagnant and some people have had to bare a disproportionate amount of the burden for it.

In retrospect we would probably have done better to have copied the example from America where they had a massive stimulus package to try and boost the economy. Compare the 2008-2018 performance of the U.S. Economy to our own. Obviously that's speculative, there is no way to know for sure, but austerity wasn't the answer either.

The deficit is a fraction of its original size and is now manageable by more traditional means. The economy is not stagnant, but it has slowed as a result of uncertainty over Brexit. When that is over, the economy is expected to bounce back again.

I'm not convinced that a stimulus package would have been the answer in our case. We have had pretty full employment here, and such a package would have required money we did not have, which would have meant more borrowing. Shame that Gordon Brown spent all our gold reserves and left no balances. Same old Labour shambles.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

That's because the Conservatives by and large don't buy the argument that there would be significant damage to the economy if we had a no 'Withdrawal Deal' Brexit.

---------- Post added at 07:36 ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 ----------



The deficit is a fraction of its original size and is now manageable by more traditional means. The economy is not stagnant, but it has slowed as a result of uncertainty over Brexit. When that is over, the economy is expected to bounce back again.

I'm not convinced that a stimulus package would have been the answer in our case. We have had pretty full employment here, and such a package would have required money we did not have, which would have meant more borrowing. Shame that Gordon Brown spent all our gold reserves and left no balances. Same old Labour shambles.

They weren’t asked the question "do you buy the argument that there will be significant damage to the British Economy", and you are being duplicitous to try and rewrite the narrative.

They were asked

for each of the following please say whether you would rather Brexit took place, even if it caused this scenario.

Significant damage to the U.K. economy

And 61% said it was worth it.

And whilst the deficit has reduced, our debt as a % of GDP has doubled - not so good.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Shame that Gordon Brown spent all our gold reserves and left no balances. Same old Labour shambles.

Vintage OB, don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant about Labour!

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Vintage OB, don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant about Labour!

cant wait for his rant when Boris disapoints and we still in EU 1st November

Brown did sell off a lot of gold but I don't see the massive issue around it. You can only sell it once, it doesn't provide a stream of income, we don't use it to back our currency. So the only real reason to hold it is to later have an intent to sell it. The issue is then when do you sell it and this is where Brown made a mistake as gold later increased in price. However we only know that in hindsight - gold doesn't naturally have to increase in value. You might as well call him an idiot for not moving the money into Apple shares.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Damien

Brown did sell off a lot of gold but I don't see the massive issue around it. You can only sell it once, it doesn't provide a stream of income, we don't use it to back our currency. So the only real reason to hold it is to later have an intent to sell it. The issue is then when do you sell it and this is where Brown made a mistake as gold later increased in price. However we only know that in hindsight - gold doesn't naturally have to increase in value. You might as well call him an idiot for not moving the money into Apple shares.

It's an easy stick to beat him and labour with, only the slow witted actually belive it credible criticism

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

It's an easy stick to beat him and labour with, only the slow witted actually belive it credible criticism

well known tory lie