Brexit - Page 229

jonbxx · 13-06-2019, 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth

. . . are you an Uber Driver?

Bottle of water, charge your phone sir?

Nope, not an Uber driver thankfully! Work for a big global company so get to meet people from all over in my work. Haven't taken the EU shilling for over 20 years when the lab I worked in was partially EU funded.

jfman · 13-06-2019, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Who said anything about working longer hour other than you? Through the opt out, we can work longer hours if we want to. It’s about sovereignty and not introducing more overheads on companies tring to compete with their European counterparts.

---------- Post added at 16:22 ---------- Previous post was at 16:09 ----------

Literally? I think not. Ploughing our own furrow is not taking more burden from the CJEU. Why do you so blatantly misinterpret my very clear words?

Yes, Working Time Directive is workers’ rights.

pip08456 · 13-06-2019, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

Yes, Working Time Directive is workers’ rights.

No its not, its workers restrictions.

mrmistoffelees · 13-06-2019, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456

No its not, its workers restrictions.

Unsurprisingly, you're wrong.

If you would care to explain how the following is a restriction on a worker ?

5.6 weeks' paid time off per year.
1 consecutive hours' rest per 24-hour period.
A 20-minute rest break (for working days longer than six hours).
A minimum of one day off per week.
For night workers, a limit of eight hours worked in any 24-hour period.

Angua · 13-06-2019, 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Who said anything about working longer hour other than you? Through the opt out, we can work longer hours if we want to. It’s about sovereignty and not introducing more overheads on companies tring to compete with their European counterparts.

---------- Post added at 16:22 ---------- Previous post was at 16:09 ----------

Literally? I think not. Ploughing our own furrow is not taking more burden from the CJEU. Why do you so blatantly misinterpret my very clear words?

How does signing a form to say you opt out of the working time directive impact on competitiveness. Or is it that you would rather have people work 6 X 12 hours for £1 an hour?

jfman · 13-06-2019, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456

No its not, its workers restrictions.

In Brexitland where everything is upside down, perhaps so. In reality it gives workers rights.

In theory it restricts me from working 168 hours a week, much like gravity restricts me from floating off to a terrible death in the vacuum of space.

**Mick** · 13-06-2019, 18:28

BREAKING: It seems Change UK, now not Change UK, that was For Change, but The Independent Group or TIG's or CUK, have now been forced to legally change their name, yet again and are now to be known as: "The Independent Group for Change".

https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/...01794737917952

Also - while I am here - big public apologies to "mrmistofelees", an apology for misreading one of his posts this morning, I have given private apologies also.

Sephiroth · 13-06-2019, 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angua

How does signing a form to say you opt out of the working time directive impact on competitiveness. Or is it that you would rather have people work 6 X 12 hours for £1 an hour?

You are being silly. The WTD is a device created to support French working practices. The opt out is a useful device, fortunately, to allow workers greater flexibility on how they work. I do this.

The CJEU judgement imposes an administrative burden on employers to keep records for some effin bureaucrat to scrutinise and may end up with employees being forced to keep timesheets or face penalties if the falsify the record.

Glib responses have little worth.

---------- Post added at 17:44 ---------- Previous post was at 17:41 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

In Brexitland where everything is upside down, perhaps so. In reality it gives workers rights.

In theory it restricts me from working 168 hours a week, much like gravity restricts me from floating off to a terrible death in the vacuum of space.

what a load of rubbish. You normally come up with sensible stuff.

Gravity is a universal force. The WTD is a contrivance to suit poor working practices elsewhere, particularly France.

jfman · 13-06-2019, 19:08

What's the current opt-out rate in the UK workforce?

ianch99 · 13-06-2019, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You are being silly. The WTD is a device created to support French working practices. The opt out is a useful device, fortunately, to allow workers greater flexibility on how they work. I do this.

The CJEU judgement imposes an administrative burden on employers to keep records for some effin bureaucrat to scrutinise and may end up with employees being forced to keep timesheets or face penalties if the falsify the record.

Glib responses have little worth.

---------- Post added at 17:44 ---------- Previous post was at 17:41 ----------

what a load of rubbish. You normally come up with sensible stuff.

Gravity is a universal force. The WTD is a contrivance to suit poor working practices elsewhere, particularly France.

Your prejudices against France and Germany blind you from the obvious need for such a law. This seems reasonable to me:

Quote:

It gives EU workers the right to at least 4 weeks in paid holidays each year, rest breaks, and rest of at least 11 hours in any 24 hours; restricts excessive night work; a day off after a week's work; and provides for a right to work no more than 48 hours per week. It was issued as an update on earlier versions from 22 June 2000 and 23 November 1993. Since excessive working time is cited as a major cause of stress, depression and illness, the purpose of the directive is to protect people's health and safety.

The only reason to remove it is to allow businesses to exploit their workforce to increase profits. Profits that are unlikely to shared with said workforce.

Sephiroth · 13-06-2019, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99

Your prejudices against France and Germany blind you from the obvious need for such a law. This seems reasonable to me:

The only reason to remove it is to allow businesses to exploit their workforce to increase profits. Profits that are unlikely to shared with said workforce.

Why don't you read what I've actually said in this conversation (not just the post you quoted). I totally support workers' rights for the reasons you've given, especially as they have an opt out. But the onus now being put on UK employers by the CJEU is a step too far.

As regards France/Germany, I haven't mentioned Germany. France is another matter; their restrictive working practices that Macron has tried unsuccessfully to remove are the reason for the WTD having been forced through the majority voting route. I object to such shenanigans which is very much what the EU condones.

pip08456 · 13-06-2019, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angua

How does signing a form to say you opt out of the working time directive impact on competitiveness. Or is it that you would rather have people work 6 X 12 hours for £1 an hour?

You do realise there's a minimum wage in this country that has nothing to do with the EU.

nomadking · 13-06-2019, 21:17

The Working Time Directive is an example of the EU having an agreement with the UK and then welching on it by imposing it on the us by the backdoor on bogus health and safety grounds.

denphone · 13-06-2019, 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456

You do realise there's a minimum wage in this country that has nothing to do with the EU.

This is when it was first started and by whom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation..._Wage_Act_1998

pip08456 · 13-06-2019, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone

This is when it was first started and by whom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation..._Wage_Act_1998

So what? It has nothing to do with the discussion.