Government & Post Election Discussion

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Hugh

They have played a very good game - vote for us if you want to leave; simple, not capable of nuance or misinterpretation- they leave the hard part to someone else when it comes to the implementation, and can wash their hands of it if it goes wrong.

The other parties have mixed messages (except Greens and Lib Dems), so can expect to split their votes.

---------- Post added at 22:39 ---------- Previous post was at 22:37 ----------

They actually don’t have a manifesto for the E.U. Elections, and don’t intend to produce one - why should they, as they have (for this election) a very simple and direct message, and don’t want to muddy the waters.

Yes the Brexit Party are very simple. The enquiring voter might want to investigate their candidates and policies a bit more.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

They have played a very good game - vote for us if you want to leave; simple, not capable of nuance or misinterpretation- they leave the hard part to someone else when it comes to the implementation, and can wash their hands of it if it goes wrong.

The other parties have mixed messages (except Greens and Lib Dems), so can expect to split their votes.[COLOR="Silver"]

So, they will vote Change UK, won't they?

---------- Post added at 01:17 ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

They actually don’t have a manifesto for the E.U. Elections, and don’t intend to produce one - why should they, as they have (for this election) a very simple and direct message, and don’t want to muddy the waters.

There's nothing wrong with that - the objective is to leave the EU.

Nothing is lost because MEPs don't have much influence on policy anyway.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

So, they will vote Change UK, won't they?

---------- Post added at 01:17 ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 ----------



There's nothing wrong with that - the objective is to leave the EU.

Nothing is lost because MEPs don't have much influence on policy anyway.

No, because in a reasonably large number of cases, people will vote for a donkey if it has a red or blue rosette.

Leave voters, on the whole, tend to be more passionate and want to "stick it to the man" (imho).

Also Labour voters are more tribal so the mixed messaging will still be enough for their supporters to back them. Labour are a vote for both Remain AND Leave due to their absurd fence-sitting.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

So, they will vote Change UK, won't they?

Change UK is quite a centrist party and includes some ex-Conservatives too. That may not appeal to more traditional Labour Party supporters who may decide instead to push more for the party to support a People's Vote.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Damien

Also Labour voters are more tribal so the mixed messaging will still be enough for their supporters to back them. Labour are a vote for both Remain AND Leave due to their absurd fence-sitting.

You could say the same for the Conservative vote as well. Not all Conservatives are Brexiteers any more than Labour supporters are. Remember, both parties have been running on manifestos that they will deliver Brexit. There are many Labour voters outside of London who want to get the hell out of the EU.

---------- Post added at 12:54 ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Change UK is quite a centrist party and includes some ex-Conservatives too. That may not appeal to more traditional Labour Party supporters who may decide instead to push more for the party to support a People's Vote.

Change UK is left of my central ground!

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You could say the same for the Conservative vote as well. Not all Conservatives are Brexiteers any more than Labour supporters are.

I don't think Conservative voters identify with their choice of party in the same way some Labour voters do. I also think a lot of Brexiters are pretty clear where they stand with the Tories whereas Remain Labour voters are still giving the leadership the benefit of the doubt.

Corbyn could come out burning an EU flag whilst demanding the channel tunnel be closed off and his supporters would still say he is playing the 'long game'.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't think Conservative voters identify with their choice of party in the same way some Labour voters do. I also think a lot of Brexiters are pretty clear where they stand with the Tories whereas Remain Labour voters are still giving the leadership the benefit of the doubt.

Corbyn could come out burning an EU flag whilst demanding the channel tunnel be closed off and his supporters would still say he is playing the 'long game'.

His core supporters are a minority of Labour support though. As they found out in the Local elections when they lost a lot of votes to the Lib Dems/Greens, who have a clear message on Brexit, unlike the 2 main parties.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Mr K

His core supporters are a minority of Labour support though. As they found out in the Local elections when they lost a lot of votes to the Lib Dems/Greens, who have a clear message on Brexit, unlike the 2 main parties.

Labour MPs say they won't back a deal without a peoples vote.

The main thing that can be said about the local election results, it is NOT a signal that the government needs to get on with Brexit.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Angua

Labour MPs say they won't back a deal without a peoples vote.

The main thing that can be said about the local election results, it is NOT a signal that the government needs to get on with Brexit.

You will find it difficult to argue that a convincing Brexit win at the EU elections does not give us the lie of the land.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You will find it difficult to argue that a convincing Brexit win at the EU elections does not give us the lie of the land.

The hype has to be repeated at the ballot box yet.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You will find it difficult to argue that a convincing Brexit win at the EU elections does not give us the lie of the land.

Problem with that will be the definition of ‘convincing’. The demography will be pulled to pieces by the Curtice and political parties and nothing will change in the Brexit melting pot.

I suppose something over 60% for the Brexit Party would be the starting point for indicativeness. But then it would need to be based on a high turnout to be meaningful.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Angua

Labour MPs say they won't back a deal without a peoples vote.

The main thing that can be said about the local election results, it is NOT a signal that the government needs to get on with Brexit.

I think May and Corbyn would have said that the result was a message to get on with Brexit regardless of whether their vote increased or decreased!

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I think May and Corbyn would have said that the result was a message to get on with Brexit regardless of whether their vote increased or decreased!

...... and would still have either Head’s stuck in the sand or playing political games or both.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Yes the Brexit Party are very simple. The enquiring voter might want to investigate their candidates and policies a bit more.

They have no policies Hey, when is that an obstacle to standing as a candidate in a democratic election.