Brexit

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I've voted for MPs without worrying about their views on Europe as until now, it's been a non-issue at the elections I've voted in. It will clearly be an issue with MPs like Kate Hoey and John Redwood whose views on this issue are at odds with their constituents. Ditto Remain MPs in leave-voting areas, But an election might be a little way off.

You are rationalising without knowing anything about the constituency. I’ve canvassed on the doorstep and know what I’m talking about.

Your argument smacks of the typical Remainer’s rhetoric: the leave voters didn’t know then what they know now; ignoring that the leavers would have taken into account the forecasts of calamity in the guvmin;s brochure.

It would be better if you stuck to what you can substantiate.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You are rationalising without knowing anything about the constituency. I’ve canvassed on the doorstep and know what I’m talking about.

Your argument smacks of the typical Remainer’s rhetoric: the leave voters didn’t know then what they know now; ignoring that the leavers would have taken into account the forecasts of calamity in the guvmin;s brochure.

It would be better if you stuck to what you can substantiate.

Honoured as I am, I think you may have quoted my post instead of someone else's.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Honoured as I am, I think you may have quoted my post instead of someone else's.

Honoured that you are honoured. I know what you mean but it was your post that I read and was moved to reply!

My reply is equally applicable to Ian!

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Honoured that you are honoured. I know what you mean but it was your post that I read and was moved to reply!

My reply is equally applicable to Ian!

Joking aside, if you re-visit my post you will see that your comments aren't really relevant to my post.

For example your statements
- "the leave voters didn’t know then what they know now" doesn't make sense as I'm not talking about leavers, I've referenced the voting intentions of constituencies where the MP voted for/against Brexit in a different way to the majority of the constituents.
"You are rationalising without knowing anything about the constituency." I don't doubt your knowledge of the constituency as a resident, canvasser and friend of John Redwood's. However, I do think that sitting MPs in constituencies like his will be severely tested where their views on Brexit differ from that of their constituents if an election occurred soon. I've also made the point that this applies both ways, eg if there is a Remain MP in a Leave constituency.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Joking aside, if you re-visit my post you will see that your comments aren't really relevant to my post.

For example your statements
- "the leave voters didn’t know then what they know now" doesn't make sense as I'm not talking about leavers, I've referenced the voting intentions of constituencies where the MP voted for/against Brexit in a different way to the majority of the constituents.
"You are rationalising without knowing anything about the constituency." I don't doubt your knowledge of the constituency as a resident, canvasser and friend of John Redwood's. However, I do think that sitting MPs in constituencies like his will be severely tested where their views on Brexit differ from that of their constituents if an election occurred soon. I've also made the point that this applies both ways, eg if there is a Remain MP in a Leave constituency.

’the leave voters didn’t know ...’ sentence wasn’t a statement of fact; it was part of a mindset comparison as to arguments used by Remainers in the context of difficulties facing MPs at odds with the Referendum result in their constituencies. It’s a sort of deep point assisting my arguments.

I’m being specific about Redwood; he was specifically mentioned as distinct from other Tories and balance needs tO be restored. Redwood is one of the Remainers’ targets and remember this part of the discussion started with an attack on his wealth in the context of being self serving.

[Hom3r]

I was there on Saturday outside the house of [Mod Edit- derogatory term removed].

The TV studios had packed up and buggered off. The upside they taken that [Mod Edit- derogatory term removed] Steve with them.

There was zero TV coverage and the crowd was relatively behaved.

There was one incident near me when a few [Mod Edit- derogatory term removed] tried to start trouble but the police told them to leave.

There was also some Orangemen who marched up to the Cenotaph. Followed by a load of cops.

Perhaps if there had been trouble the Brexit Biased Corporation might have covered it.

There are now plans to do another protest on the 28th April, same day as the marathon.

Reminder of the opening post by Mick on the previous Brexit thread

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...ghlight=Brexit

While opening a new thread on Brexit. It has been noticed over the last few days that, we seem to be falling back in to the pathetic child like arguments, using words such as "Remoaners and Brexstremists".

A person who voted to leave the EU and expects that result to be enacted and leave the EU in it's entirety, they are not a extreme or hard Brexiteer.

So therefore, do not use any kind of extra labeling that can be considered provocative by either side...

...1) Avoid using these provocative terms. Remember CF terms and conditions state members should not provoke other members.

Attitudes towards each other are also unacceptable. The team are sick of the constant same petty arguments day in, day out. Enough is enough. The back biting has to finally stop.

2) Act more civil towards other members, lose the bad attitudes.

Some members are also going ridiculously over old ground, for some reason discussing merits of either leaving or not leaving the EU. Brexit has now become law, the UK is leaving the EU.

As of 27/6/18, Prime Minister Theresa May is still indicating that the UK will be leaving the Customs Union and Single Market.

3) We need to start moving on, stop using Provocative terms towards each other. If this does not happen, this new thread will ultimately be closed (And the persons responsible for it's closure dealt with accordingly).

Inappropriate phrases removed - repetition will invoke the infraction system

[Angua]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Joking aside, if you re-visit my post you will see that your comments aren't really relevant to my post.

For example your statements
- "the leave voters didn’t know then what they know now" doesn't make sense as I'm not talking about leavers, I've referenced the voting intentions of constituencies where the MP voted for/against Brexit in a different way to the majority of the constituents.
"You are rationalising without knowing anything about the constituency." I don't doubt your knowledge of the constituency as a resident, canvasser and friend of John Redwood's. However, I do think that sitting MPs in constituencies like his will be severely tested where their views on Brexit differ from that of their constituents if an election occurred soon. I've also made the point that this applies both ways, eg if there is a Remain MP in a Leave constituency.

In reality I doubt it. The correct colour rosette voters seem unbothered, as the results in David Cameron's constituency attest. A remain voting parliamentary seat now has an ERG MP, elected twice due to the bi-election.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Angua

In reality I doubt it. The correct colour rosette voters seem unbothered, as the results in David Cameron's constituency attest. A remain voting parliamentary seat now has an ERG MP, elected twice due to the bi-election.

I'd change your post quickly if I were you

Seriously, the point you make is the one that matters and is where the denial is. The current system, with the entrenched tribal loyalties on both sides delivers people like Redwood who feel at liberty to push their personal, skewed ideology in opposition to the best interests & wishes of their constituency, party and country.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I'd change your post quickly if I were you

Seriously, the point you make is the one that matters and is where the denial is. The current system, with the entrenched tribal loyalties on both sides delivers people like Redwood who feel at liberty to push their personal, skewed ideology in opposition to the best interests & wishes of their constituency, party and country.

No. He's carrying out the will of the electorate as voted for in a UK-wide referendum.

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

No. He's carrying out the will of the electorate as voted for in a UK-wide referendum.

He long should an assumed mandate last? I ask because Dave felt it OK to ask the people 'despite' the last vote in the 70's.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

No. He's carrying out the will of the electorate as voted for in a UK-wide referendum.

Not his job, he is not part of the Government. His duties as an MP are clear and distinct ..

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I'd change your post quickly if I were you

Seriously, the point you make is the one that matters and is where the denial is. The current system, with the entrenched tribal loyalties on both sides delivers people like Redwood who feel at liberty to push their personal, skewed ideology in opposition to the best interests & wishes of their constituency, party and country.

You once again go well OTT on Redwood.

He was elected in 1987 - are you certain he wanted to push a skewed ideology? He wants a sovereign UK - hardly a skewed ideology. eign that rubbish in, please.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You once again go well OTT on Redwood.

He was elected in 1987 - are you certain he wanted to push a skewed ideology? He wants a sovereign UK - hardly a skewed ideology. eign that rubbish in, please.

Seph, sometime's one's proximity and friendships can cloud one's judgments. Whatever Redwood's competence as a city investor, good friend and MP, his reputation has been tainted for lying about the public's views on Brexit.
Redwood: "So, you are flogging a dead horse with this agreement and the public is well ahead of you and the public accept, by a majority now that the best option is just to leave and offer them a free trade deal."
Channel 4 "That is not true. That is not true. John Redwood thank you very much. What you've just said is not true but thank you very much for joining us."
https://www.indy100.com/article/brex...murthy-8857691

[Sephiroth]

One peccadillo does not make him a liar. He was mistaken. From the same interview, the unquestionable truth to the question as to why he did not support May's deal:

"Well, no we couldn't possibly do that because that isn't leaving. The deal is a massively expensive and long delay
.
Our manifesto promised that within two years the government would negotiate a future partnership as well as any withdrawal issues the EU wanted mentioned or leave without a deal.

Now we must keep our promise and I and my colleagues stand fully behind the manifesto.

We hoped our prime minister did and I would urge her tonight to join us in upholding the manifesto, taking us out proudly on April 12 and agreeing on any remaining things that need agreeing so we have a smooth exit.

There is no cliff edge. There is no disaster and we would have lots of money to spend and we need to spend the money urgently to give our economy a boost at a time when the German and French economies are ailing and the Italian economy is in recession.Well, no we couldn't possibly do that because that isn't leaving. The deal is a massively expensive and long delay.

Our manifesto promised that within two years the government would negotiate a future partnership as well as any withdrawal issues the EU wanted mentioned or leave without a deal.

Now we must keep our promise and I and my colleagues stand fully behind the manifesto.

We hoped our prime minister did and I would urge her tonight to join us in upholding the manifesto, taking us out proudly on April 12 and agreeing on any remaining things that need agreeing so we have a smooth exit.

There is no cliff edge. There is no disaster and we would have lots of money to spend and we need to spend the money urgently to give our economy a boost at a time when the German and French economies are ailing and the Italian economy is in recession."