Brexit

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

People know my stance on polling but....

Well well well...



You Gov poll along similar lines too earlier this week.

You’ve been right about polling all along

I jest. It’s valid as a poll, with the usual caveats. If two polls show it then it’s nkt likely to be rogue.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Damien

The problem is that we are living in a global economic and opting out of it is unlikely to be beneficial in future.

The alternative scenario is millennials (a generation which didn't causing a banking crisis they suffered from or accrue the debt they'll need to pay back) live though an era where the British economy and status in the world declines and they don't think 'they were right' of the generation that went before.

If we are living in a global economic world, why are you suggesting we should be Eurocentric?

As for the millenials, they will make their own mistakes in time. I would also point out that the millenials did not all vote to remain, which is what you seem to be implying.

There is no point in trying to justify the unjustifiable by dividing people against each other. Leavers know why they voted leave and unlike most remainers, could see that we would be better off, yes, better off, than remaining in that rotting, undemocratic monstrocity they call the EU.

---------- Post added at 19:07 ---------- Previous post was at 19:05 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

People know my stance on polling but....

Well well well...



You Gov poll along similar lines too earlier this week.

Nice to see the remainers seem to be in terminal decline.

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

If we are living in a global economic world, why are you suggesting we should be Eurocentric?

As for the millenials, they will make their own mistakes in time. I would also point out that the millenials did not all vote to remain, which is what you seem to be implying.

There is no point in trying to justify the unjustifiable by dividing people against each other. Leavers know why they voted leave and unlike most remainers, could see that we would be better off, yes, better off, than remaining in that rotting, undemocratic monstrocity they call the EU.

---------- Post added at 19:07 ---------- Previous post was at 19:05 ----------



Nice to see the remainers seem to be in terminal decline.

Could be better off.

BREAKING: France, Spain and Belgium 'ready for no-deal Brexit next week'
Chance of May getting 30 June extension appear slim after notes of EU meeting emerge.

France has won the support of Spain and Belgium after signalling its readiness for a no-deal Brexit on 12 April if there are no significant new British proposals, according to a note of an EU27 meeting seen by the Guardian.

The diplomatic cable reveals that the French ambassador secured the support of Spanish and Belgian colleagues in arguing that there should only be, at most, a short article 50 extension to avoid an instant financial crisis, saying: “We could probably extend for a couple of weeks to prepare ourselves in the markets.”

The chances of Theresa May’s proposal of an extension to 30 June succeeding appeared slim as France’s position in the private diplomatic meeting was echoed by an official statement reiterating its opposition to any further Brexit delay without a clear British plan.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...P=share_btn_tw

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

There is no point in trying to justify the unjustifiable by dividing people against each other. Leavers know why they voted leave and unlike most remainers, could see that we would be better off, yes, better off, than remaining in that rotting, undemocratic monstrocity they call the EU.

Then it won't happen will it? But my point is that this is going to be tested now and if you are wrong then then millennials are unlikely to be thankful.

[nomadking]

It's not as if May's request for a delay are in order to prepare for Brexit, it's to allow remain by whatever possible means.

Originally Posted by Mick

People know my stance on polling but....

Well well well...



You Gov poll along similar lines too earlier this week.

They seemed to have missed off "No Brexit" as one of the options...

Must be because the narrative to that poll was

Forced to choose between no deal, Theresa May’s deal or a long delay with EU elections, 41% prefer no deal, 35% a long delay with EU elections, with just 16% favouring the prime minister’s plan – nine percent answered ‘don’t know’.

Not really valid, is it, if you limit the choices?

https://www.televisor.co.uk/featured...it-news/040513

[ianch99]

I saw this on Twitter:

The arguments I’ve heard in support of embracing no deal seem all to be variants of:
1. Bored now. BORED!
2. **** ‘em and **** it all!
3. WW2 was worse.
I know someone, somewhere will have made a more rational case. Could anyone supply a link?

So true. The Leave voters who were told that this is a big win for them have just got fed up waiting for the sunlit uplands or at least the promise of them.

Most of the "No Deal" advocates in the poll above are just wanting this farce to be over. Of course, when the pain arrives they will have other thoughts but hey, we live in an age of a Wish is a Fact so for the lemmings, the cliff awaits.

For the Leave voters who the political class and big business have ignored & exploited for decades, this vote was all about sticking, quite rightly, a middle finger up to the establishment. The pain of a No Deal was/will not be what they were/will expect and yet again, those that will truly suffer will be those who can afford it least.

The people who deserve the most criticism are those who sold Leave as a 100% positive outcome, lying through their teeth and now, when the proverbial is hitting the fan, they claim to have said No Deal was acceptable all along. Shame on them ...

Damien's point of the millenials is so valid: the Tories have sold their political birthright down the toilet. I give them 5 to 10 years at the most ..

Originally Posted by Hugh

They seemed to have missed off "No Brexit" as one of the options...

Must be because the narrative to that poll was

Not really valid, is it, if you limit the choices?

https://www.televisor.co.uk/featured...it-news/040513

No Brexit, i.e "Remain", lost that vote in 2016 Hugh - nice try though.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

People know my stance on polling but....

Well well well...



You Gov poll along similar lines too earlier this week.

I'm guessing here, but based on the above, your stance on polls is to promote those that don't have remain as an option?

Originally Posted by ianch99

I saw this on Twitter:



So true. The Leave voters who were told that this is a big win for them have just got fed up waiting for the sunlit uplands or at least the promise of them.

Most of the "No Deal" advocates in the poll above are just wanting this farce to be over. Of course, when the pain arrives they will have other thoughts but hey, we live in an age of a Wish is a Fact so for the lemmings, the cliff awaits.

For the Leave voters who the political class and big business have ignored & exploited for decades, this vote was all about sticking, quite rightly, a middle finger up to the establishment. The pain of a No Deal was/will not be what they were/will expect and yet again, those that will truly suffer will be those who can afford it least.

The people who deserve the most criticism are those who sold Leave as a 100% positive outcome, lying through their teeth and now, when the proverbial is hitting the fan, they claim to have said No Deal was acceptable all along. Shame on them ...

Damien's point of the millenials is so valid: the Tories have sold their political birthright down the toilet. I give them 5 to 10 years at the most ..

No it is not valid.

They have done no such thing because project fear is exactly that - just fiction. We should have every right to prosper as a pure independent country, we do not need to be tied in to a corrupted union that wants to seek more power from it's members.

I wasn't old enough to vote in various elections - it happens, you don't run the same vote just because people become of age.

My future was chosen for me, it happens!!!

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I saw this on Twitter:



So true. The Leave voters who were told that this is a big win for them have just got fed up waiting for the sunlit uplands or at least the promise of them.

Most of the "No Deal" advocates in the poll above are just wanting this farce to be over. Of course, when the pain arrives they will have other thoughts but hey, we live in an age of a Wish is a Fact so for the lemmings, the cliff awaits.

For the Leave voters who the political class and big business have ignored & exploited for decades, this vote was all about sticking, quite rightly, a middle finger up to the establishment. The pain of a No Deal was/will not be what they were/will expect and yet again, those that will truly suffer will be those who can afford it least.

The people who deserve the most criticism are those who sold Leave as a 100% positive outcome, lying through their teeth and now, when the proverbial is hitting the fan, they claim to have said No Deal was acceptable all along. Shame on them ...

Damien's point of the millenials is so valid: the Tories have sold their political birthright down the toilet. I give them 5 to 10 years at the most ..

Sound analysis. A no-deal Brexit could well be the end of the Conservative Party. Maybe we need to go through such a period of suffering, get a fairer voting system and eventually return to the EU with more political parties representing all shades of opinion.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I'm guessing here, but based on the above, your stance on polls is to promote those that don't have remain as an option?

FFS - I didn't do the damn poll - wind your necks in.

Originally Posted by Mick

BREAKING: France, Spain and Belgium 'ready for no-deal Brexit next week'
Chance of May getting 30 June extension appear slim after notes of EU meeting emerge.



https://www.theguardian.com/politics...P=share_btn_tw

As I’ve suspected, no one member state wants to take the blame for a No Deal Brexit, and no number of small member states could afford to pyss off Germany by forcing it. Only France, with moral support from at least one other significant member, could get away with it.

I really don’t know what May is thinking asking for basically the same extension date she asked for - and was denied - less than two weeks ago. She can only imagine she has some way of convincing the 27 that there’s sufficient progress to justify it. The problem with that is that simply meeting Jezza and then promising more votes in the Commons isn’t going to prove progress.

---------- Post added at 20:07 ---------- Previous post was at 20:03 ----------

Also ... Sky and Yougov polls this week have both shown sufficient support for a No Deal Brexit that if it comes to it, the Tory party need not consider allowing it to be electoral suicide.

Originally Posted by Chris

Also ... Sky and Yougov polls this week have both shown sufficient support for a No Deal Brexit that if it comes to it, the Tory party need not consider allowing it to be electoral suicide.

It won't be what the polls say but what happens after that would be electoral suicide. Unless No Deal turns out to the be fine it will be this government and those pushing No Deal held responsible for it.