Brexit - Page 48

jfman · 27-03-2019, 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

What if the people can't make a decision?

What margin of victory would be seen as acceptable.

What if it was

17,000,001 Remain

and

17,000,000 Leave

Do we Remain, all's fair, accept the result and bugger off.

and vice versa, Leave vote confirmed beyond question?

This is why a second referendum would be an absolute disaster. It has be sorted out now.

You are making the assumption the result will be close. A slim risk, but one worth taking.

**Maggy** · 27-03-2019, 23:55

Stockpiling it is then..

1andrew1 · 28-03-2019, 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

I'll never understand why the ERG didn't go for May's Deal, especially the 2nd time when it was clear what was happening. I don't know what they thought would happen but after the deal failed they were reportedly cheering and humming the Great Escape.

I think they just ended up wanting to defeat May's deal and hoped she would step down if she lost, with a more hardline Brexiter replacing her.

I suspect that the Withdrawal Agreement could end up a lot more representative of the country as a whole than the more narrow ERG take on Brexit.

If only Theresa May had done this at the start, she wouldn't have put herself, business and the country through lots of unnecessary stress.

---------- Post added at 23:27 ---------- Previous post was at 23:16 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gavin78

Makes me laugh how they take a chunk out of May but couldn't even pull a deal off themselves.

May's be trying for years. They've only had a few days.

jfman · 28-03-2019, 00:31

In her defence she’s came back with the best deal. The other options are no deal or some measure of BRINO.

nomadking · 28-03-2019, 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

In her defence she’s came back with the best deal. The other options are no deal or some measure of BRINO.

So what is your definition of BRINO(Brexit in name only), that isn't in the withdrawal agreement?

jfman · 28-03-2019, 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

So what is your definition of BRINO(Brexit in name only), that isn't in the withdrawal agreement?

The WA is part one of a two step process. The next part shaping the future relationship which could be BRINO but could not.

Commitments to the single market and the customs union are already binding the final outcome to be BRINO.

**Chris** · 28-03-2019, 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Well yeah but that is absolutely what they did and what we expected them to do. The concept of voting again next week with the most popular options remaining was already priced into the decision making.

That’s a risky strategy, if that’s what they were doing. MV3 (probably) comes next. Further indicative votes are hoped for on Monday but are not presently timetabled.

jonbxx · 28-03-2019, 09:49

Nice breakdown of how parties voted last night here - https://twitter.com/MShepheard/statu...86640050053120

papa smurf · 28-03-2019, 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Stockpiling it is then..

5 months ahead of you on that

denphone · 28-03-2019, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

5 months ahead of you on that

You will be able to open a shop in a minute.

papa smurf · 28-03-2019, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone

You will be able to open a shop in a minute.

I'm war ready at my end

nomadking · 28-03-2019, 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

The WA is part one of a two step process. The next part shaping the future relationship which could be BRINO but could not.

Commitments to the single market and the customs union are already binding the final outcome to be BRINO.

The WA is effectively BRINO, and that is the ONLY deal that she has come up with. So the current "deal" IS BRINO.

In it there's an awful lot of this sort of thing, "unless so authorised by the Union".

Then there is the bit about the backstop:-

Quote:

2(1). The provisions of this Protocol shall apply unless and until they are
superseded, in whole or in part, by a subsequent agreement.

And that involves the UK being forced to remain in a customs union. Why would the EU agree to anything, when they get so much by not agreeing to anything? Especially as the attempted coup by the Remain side hasn't finished yet. What idiot allowed the "unless and until" bit, when that is possibly the biggest factor in the WA not being agreed.

OLD BOY · 28-03-2019, 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

The WA is effectively BRINO, and that is the ONLY deal that she has come up with. So the current "deal" IS BRINO.

In it there's an awful lot of this sort of thing, "unless so authorised by the Union".

Then there is the bit about the backstop:-
And that involves the UK being forced to remain in a customs union. Why would the EU agree to anything, when they get so much by not agreeing to anything? Especially as the attempted coup by the Remain side hasn't finished yet. What idiot allowed the "unless and until" bit, when that is possibly the biggest factor in the WA not being agreed.

The thing that gets me is how you can have a protocol that you cannot ever unilaterally terminate in a temporary agreement! The backstop should end when the withdrawal agreement ends unless there is a separate agreement to the contrary.

Only the EU could come up with something so perverse. I'm not even so sure it could be enforced once the withdrawal agreement expires- once ended, where is the legal authority for the backstop?

1andrew1 · 28-03-2019, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The thing that gets me is how you can have a protocol that you cannot ever unilaterally terminate in a temporary agreement! The backstop should end when the withdrawal agreement ends unless there is a separate agreement to the contrary.

Only the EU could come up with something so perverse. I'm not even so sure it could be enforced once the withdrawal agreement expires- once ended, where is the legal authority for the backstop?

A backstop can't be temporary or it wouldn't be a backstop.

ianch99 · 28-03-2019, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

What is a hard Brexiteer?

I am sick of these unjustly qualifying terms being used. There is no such thing. You want to Remain, you are not a hard Remainer. A person who wants to leave is not a hard leaver.

Here you go. A Hard Brexiter is one who supports a Hard Brexit - FullFact definition:

What is hard Brexit?

---------- Post added at 10:07 ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

I’m not here to defend Mogg or anyone in particular. As it happens I think Mogg is being a little revisionist of his own position. I’m just trying to ensure the discussion is a little closer to the totality of what people have said, rather than obsessing over selective one-liners that validate our existing viewpoints.

Acquis communautaire isn’t just fancy French for the sake of it. It is one of the key principles of the European Union and its existence is the reason for one of the main principled objections to UK membership. The Acquis is the body of EU law, but it is also the principle that once an area of national competence has become part of the body of EU law, it remains there permanently, and EU membership mandates full compliance with it.

As a third party, the UK can form treaties with the EU (or any other state, or supra-national institution) that allow cooperation on issues where it is in the mutual interest of the UK and whoever else. That means we may operate in line with the Acquis in some things, but crucially because we are not members of the EU we are not bound by all of it.

Dude, I know what the words mean. It is just no one in the country is using them ...