Brexit (Old)

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Dave42

Brexit minister just confirmed all the votes will take place Tuesday Wednesday and Thursday

Like an MOT certificate that’s only a valid statement of the situation at that point in time.

---------- Post added at 16:14 ---------- Previous post was at 16:06 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

All that seems to have moved is the target date to 2025.
From official EU document.

Completing the European and Monetary Union means those member states who joined the EU after creation but do not yet use the Euro - those without opt-outs.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

Like an MOT certificate that’s only a valid statement of the situation at that point in time.

---------- Post added at 16:14 ---------- Previous post was at 16:06 ----------



Completing the European and Monetary Union means those member states who joined the EU after creation but do not yet use the Euro - those without opt-outs.

According to the notes from that meeting – in which big EU hitters Pierre Moscovici and Valdis Dombrovskis allegedly participated – the EU Commission wants all 27 member states to adopt the euro by 2025.

Frankfurter Allgemeine has taken part of documents detailing plans to introduce the euro in all member countries by 2025 – including Sweden.
...

The idea woule be to give the EU-parliament "democratic control" over the euro area's fiscal policy, as opposed to the current setup, where euro area finance ministers make decisions behind closed doors.

...

"Of course we do encourage all member states to join as soon as they meet the prerequisites. But there is no specific time limit," Dombrovskis said, according to news agency Direkt.
Under the current EU treaty, Denmark would have the right to opt out if a "forced" decision were to be taken.

So what is a "forced" decision, if not against their will?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

So what is a "forced" decision, if not against their will?

That’s an unsourced sentence at the end of an article, essentially the opinion of the author.

There’s no published EU documents to support the claim. The part above about establishing a Treasury for the euro-area is true, and the Commission always encourages Member States to join.

However there’s nothing about ending the opt-out of Member States who have one. As that would require a Treaty level change it could also be stopped very easily. Which the EU know.

I’d imagine it’s a creative interpretation of this document:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...DC0821&from=EN

Even the vision for 2025 refers to the euro-area as a separate and distinct category than the EU.

Originally Posted by nomadking

All that seems to have moved is the target date to 2025.
From official EU document.

It helps if you link to things you are quoting, because context is important - in this case

https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-e...etary-union_en

The Commission presented the Reflection Paper on the deepening of the Economic and Monetary Union on 31 May 2017 precisely to recall these gaps and outline a possible way forward. The paper was part of the broader debate on the future direction of the European integration, which was initiated by the White Paper on the future on Europe, published by the Commission on 1 March 2017.

The White Paper presented five scenarios for how the Union could evolve, depending on the choices made by European leaders. The Reflection Paper on the deepening of the EMU aimed to take this debate forward with a particular focus on the future of the Economic and Monetary Union. It proposed options to help build a broad consensus on how to take on the challenges and to give a fresh impetus to this important debate.

From 3 hours ago, on the BBC website

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47523168

So will all EU members have to adopt the euro?

The short answer is no.

Some European Union countries have negotiated "opt-outs" in areas of EU policy they do not want to join.

In the case of the UK and Denmark, these opt-outs include membership of the euro currency.

So if the UK were to end up not leaving the EU, it would retain all of its current opt-outs, including that one.

A country can decide to give up any of its opt-outs, but only a national government can do this (ie the EU can't currently force a country to surrender them).

[jfman]

Statement in Strasbourg at 9pm.

Can’t believe our PM addressing us from inside enemy territory with news. She should wait until she’s on sovereign British soil before giving those perfidious Europeans the V-sign from the cliffs of Dover. Then update us on the deal.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jfman

Statement in Strasbourg at 9pm.

Can’t believe our PM addressing us from inside enemy territory with news. She should wait until she’s on sovereign British soil before giving those perfidious Europeans the V-sign from the cliffs of Dover. Then update us on the deal.

This is it! Those pesky Europeans have finally succumbed and will offer us those benefits of being in the EU that we choose without being a member.

https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status...64642832261120

If the Tusk /Juncker letter is turned into a protocol, then there is a case that the UK could quit the backstop if it was becoming permanent because that would breach the Good Friday Agreement. This would mean Cox could change his legal advice & deal might pass

So if the above happens will the ERG stop whining and back it or will they find some other reason to cry treachery?

[mrmistoffelees]

I have a feeling (no evidence) that May has managed to pull a rabbit out of the hat somehow

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I have a feeling (no evidence) that May has managed to pull a rabbit out of the hat somehow

she must think she got something for her to go to Strasbourg

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

It helps if you link to things you are quoting, because context is important - in this case

https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-e...etary-union_en

From 3 hours ago, on the BBC website

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47523168

The BBC article refers to 2020, when the actual target date is 2025.
As I've already pointed out, the UK had an opt out on the Working Time Directive. That opt-out was overridden.

Denmark and Sweden signed up to this.

The Rome Declaration
Declaration of the leaders of 27 member states and of the European Council, the European Parliament and the European Commission
We, the Leaders of 27 Member States and of EU institutions, take pride in the achievements of the European Union: the construction of European unity is a bold, far-sighted endeavour.
...
n these times of change, and aware of the concerns of our citizens, we commit to the Rome Agenda, and pledge to work towards:

1. A prosperous and sustainable Europe: a Union which creates growth and jobs; a Union where a strong, connected and developing Single Market, embracing technological transformation, and a stable and further strengthened single currency open avenues for growth, cohesion, competitiveness, innovation and exchange, especially for small and medium-sized enterprises; a Union promoting sustained and sustainable growth, through investment, structural reforms and working towards completing the Economic and Monetary Union; a Union where economies converge; a Union where energy is secure and affordable and the environment clean and safe.

[jfman]

You are selectively interpreting the phrase “completing the Economic and Monetary Union”.

It means completing a series of reforms in this context - not forcing countries outside the eurozone to adopt it.

Ironically, the proposed reforms give more power to the democratically elected European Parliament and give less power to the behind closed doors meetings of the Eurogroup of finance ministers. The reforms, in theory, reduce the power and influence of France and Germany.

Indeed, presumably the United Kingdom is a signatory to that?

[Sephiroth]

Here's the problem with the "democratically elected European Parliament".

It contains violently opposed factions from countries that are not in line with Juncker's vision, plus federalists whose main motive is for the EU Parliament to trump country parliaments. Electing MEPs is a nebulous thing and in any case the UK MEPs don't think along the majority lines of other MEPs.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Here's the problem with the "democratically elected European Parliament".

It contains violently opposed factions from countries that are not in line with Juncker's vision, plus federalists whose main motive is for the EU Parliament to trump country parliaments. Electing MEPs is a nebulous thing and in any case the UK MEPs don't think along the majority lines of other MEPs.

So the best way to control the direction of the EU in line with the will of citizens would be to have working groups from each government, like finance ministers from each Member State getting together and agreeing between themselves?

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status...28060381638657

Lidington tells MPs PM has secured new ‘legally binding assurances’ on backstop

[jfman]

My verdict: