Brexit (Old)

Love the way the graph includes foreign residents, UK nationals who have made long term decisions not to play an active role in national life and children who have never voted in any general election. Talk about stacking the deck.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by jfman

They as in Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May. Do keep up.

Yes, I can see what the image says, I just wondered if they know their names are being used on an unsubstantiated image of dubious origin

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Carth

Yes, I can see what the image says, I just wondered if they know their names are being used on an unsubstantiated image of dubious origin

They regularly describe Brexit as the will of the people, as it’s a generally accepted turn of phrase for the victorious outcome in an election.

Some of those figures are reasonably easy to verify from electoral rolls, census data, etc.

[Hom3r]

Here's a hyperthetical question.

The anti Brixit MPS force another referemdum and there are 3 option on the ballot paper and the results are as follow

35% - Remain in the UK.

33% - Leave with no deal

32% - Leave with Mays deal

Would the Remainers say they've won?

[Carth]

Originally Posted by jfman

They regularly describe Brexit as the will of the people, as it’s a generally accepted turn of phrase for the victorious outcome in an election.

Some of those figures are reasonably easy to verify from electoral rolls, census data, etc.

Quite possibly they are, but as Chris says above, totally irrelevant to the referendum vote result and just mischief making

You never did say where the image came from either . . go on, tell . . we won't laugh, honest

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

But, Andrew, the Customs Union is essentially the common market. Of course leavers voted to leave that too! I can't believe we are still having this conversation!

---------- Post added at 17:28 ---------- Previous post was at 17:23 ----------



Oh, do pack it in! If you lot think you can speak for all those who voted leave and how they were soooo confused and didn't know that a cross against leave meant leave, then that is true arrogance.

I don't know anyone who voted leave that didn't appreciate what they were voting for. Who are you to know what those who oppose your view were thinking?

---------- Post added at 17:38 ---------- Previous post was at 17:28 ----------



Oh, do give it a rest, Mythica. You are whining now.

OB, you need to calm down. It really is simple. Let me try and explain:

some people voted Leave voted as you did i.e. to leave a political arrangement they have a ideological hatred of. Fine no problem so far.

some people voted Leave having researched the pros and con and concluded they were better off out. Again no problem. No quite the same but again no problem.

some people voted Leave as a protest and actually did not wish to Leave only to make a point.

some people voted Leave because they were persuaded by the Leave campaign that they would be better off and this was a win-win situation for them.

some people voted Leave because they do not like foreign people coming here and working in the UK

some people voted Leave because they had listened to the media they subscribe to and believed the lies told to them over decades of misinformation

some people voted Leave because they believe the promises of the post-brexit low regulation, low tax, free market economy sold to them by the Tories (they are wrong btw)

some people voted Leave assuming that they would not be worse off financially and would not face any hardships

some people voted Leave happy to see an economic downturn and job losses as a price worth paying. Worth noting that these people are, almost without exception, the people that will not be impacted by said consequences.

Are you seeing a pattern here? It is a pattern of people voting Leave for many different reasons .. reasons that include valid ones, xenophobic ones, stupid ones, and deceitful ones.

Welcome to the Pleasuredome! Now pass me that Mallet of Loving Correction

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Carth

Quite possibly they are, but as Chris says above, totally irrelevant to the referendum vote result and just mischief making

You never did say where the image came from either . . go on, tell . . we won't laugh, honest

jfman didn't post that graphic, Angua did.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

Here's a hyperthetical question.

The anti Brixit MPS force another referemdum and there are 3 option on the ballot paper and the results are as follow

35% - Remain in the UK.

33% - Leave with no deal

32% - Leave with Mays deal

Would the Remainers say they've won?

I think in that scenario more work would need to be done. We’re in this mess because the electorate were presented a binary choice.

The issue of leaving the EU is far too complex to be put into a binary or choice of three. In my opinion how to leave and what to prioritise merits a vote or multiple votes.

What should we prioritise? Free movement? A trade deal with the EU? Other trade deals unknown? Reducing our net contribution to the EU? Fish?

If one of those things is far more important than the rest the Theresa May deal isn’t awful. (Note I did say “if”).

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

If persuasion doesn't work, try a bribe!

Even if this promise is kept after the vote, some areas will have to bid for the money, so aren't guaranteed to get it.

Even if they do, it's a drop in the ocean compared to the massive funding cuts by the Tories in Northern areas.

Richard, you have found the Elephant in the room! The amount a city might get is far less that they have lost in the years of Tory austerity.

If any poor Labour MP smuck falls for this con trick, they would be a laughing stock.

---------- Post added at 22:24 ---------- Previous post was at 22:14 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

It is irrelevant anyway - we had a referendum, where the largest Democratic mandate in history took place regardless how many times you erroneously keep bringing up pointless figures, trying to include people ineligible to vote or could not be arsed to, it utterly pointless because it does not matter after the result has been made, the country voted to leave, there will not be another referendum, no matter how many times the democracy abusers spit their dummy out.

Wrong again. The 1975 Referendum on the European Community (Common Market) had a bigger mandate:

17,378,581 voted yes out of an electorate of 40,086,677. This equates to approx 43% of the electorate versus. 37% for the 2016 referendum

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

Here's a hyperthetical question.

The anti Brixit MPS force another referemdum and there are 3 option on the ballot paper and the results are as follow

35% - Remain in the UK.

33% - Leave with no deal

32% - Leave with Mays deal

Would the Remainers say they've won?

Nope

Originally Posted by ianch99

Wrong again. The 1975 Referendum on the European Community (Common Market) had a bigger mandate:

17,378,581 voted yes out of an electorate of 40,086,677. This equates to approx 43% of the electorate versus. 37% for the 2016 referendum

And 17.4 Million beat that Yes count by a small margin.

So - Yes it is biggest mandate issued by a Democratic process!!!

Couple of issues which totally negates your point above, totally:-

• Six Million more people were eligible to vote in 2016 than in 1975.
  
• The EU in 2016, as it is known as, vastly different to what it was 41 years earlier. People were not voting for the same things because they were not the same!!!
  
• 37% is an erroneous figure.
  
• 52% beats 48%
  
  Approx, 13 Million people who were eligible to vote in 2016 EU Referendum, but did not because they did not care either way or just could not be arsed to, completely blows the crap out of that 37% figure rubbish.

The UK did not get a choice on joining what the EU came to exist as today, we can thank John Major for that, for signing the Maastricht Treaty and basically giving the EU more powers over their laws than our British laws.

As with the EU gaining more powers since then, came the total corruption from within the EU.

The British people made the correct choice to leave such a corrupted establishment but they had to wait nearly 24 years to get a chance to say no, we do not want to be in this corrupted club, which is what it is!

---------- Post added at 02:35 ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

OB, you need to calm down. It really is simple. Let me try and explain:

some people voted Leave voted as you did i.e. to leave a political arrangement they have a ideological hatred of. Fine no problem so far.

some people voted Leave having researched the pros and con and concluded they were better off out. Again no problem. No quite the same but again no problem.

some people voted Leave as a protest and actually did not wish to Leave only to make a point.

some people voted Leave because they were persuaded by the Leave campaign that they would be better off and this was a win-win situation for them.

some people voted Leave because they do not like foreign people coming here and working in the UK

some people voted Leave because they had listened to the media they subscribe to and believed the lies told to them over decades of misinformation

some people voted Leave because they believe the promises of the post-brexit low regulation, low tax, free market economy sold to them by the Tories (they are wrong btw)

some people voted Leave assuming that they would not be worse off financially and would not face any hardships

some people voted Leave happy to see an economic downturn and job losses as a price worth paying. Worth noting that these people are, almost without exception, the people that will not be impacted by said consequences.

Are you seeing a pattern here? It is a pattern of people voting Leave for many different reasons .. reasons that include valid ones, xenophobic ones, stupid ones, and deceitful ones.

Welcome to the Pleasuredome! Now pass me that Mallet of Loving Correction

Only you have not corrected anything... Just insulted in a pathetic, patronising way. Talking of mallets - Do I need to start swinging my ban mallet/hammer ???

Now, where were we...

You have not asked all 17.4 Million people why they voted to leave, so your reasoning behind why they did, as displayed in the quote above, is Remainer driven illogical and insulting nonsense.

Perhaps I can vouch why I voted to leave the EU and still would (And I don't doubt for one second, other Brexiteers are with me on this), because I do actually want to leave the EU!

I was not misguided, I did not follow any misinformation.

I do have a pair of eyes and I can see for myself just how corrupt the EU is.

It's not xenophobic, it wasn't stupid, it was not ideological hatred, although I do actually legitimately hate the EU, it's not ideologically driven hate, I just cannot stand being in a corrupted con job club, which is exactly what the EU is.

We pay vast sums, in which they take a cut and then pass back to us, they are not funding us, when it's our money they're passing about and I am sick of these funding claims being made by some of you Remainers. The EU does not fund shit in the UK, we are a NET Contributor. We hand the cash to them, they hand some of it back and tell us what to spend it on.

---------- Post added at 02:55 ---------- Previous post was at 02:35 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Well, apart from, freedom of movement, right to reside, protection of food standards, collaboration on scientific research, cheaper travel. workers rights. too name but a few.


Yup, we are not getting anything from the romans , sorry, the EU

It's not always about a fiscal benefit.

Missed this earlier - Absolute rubbish, none of those require to be in a union to gain such benefit.

Cheap holidays, don't need them, I get them going to other places in the world, at a reasonable discount - clue, the world is a much bigger place than any other country in the EU.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

Missed this earlier - Absolute rubbish, none of those require to be in a union to gain such benefit.

Cheap holidays, don't need them, I get them going to other places in the world, at a reasonable discount - clue, the world is a much bigger place than any other country in the EU.

Less fortunate people than you are grateful for cheap holidays in Spain and to be able to work and live on the Continent.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Chris

Love the way the graph includes foreign residents, UK nationals who have made long term decisions not to play an active role in national life and children who have never voted in any general election. Talk about stacking the deck.

Oddly enough, a lot of Leave voters were ex pats living in Spain. Not really going to make a huge difference to the numbers, but I suspect they were expecting things to carry on much as they are after leaving the EU.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

You can’t expect Old Boy to present a reasoned argument. He has a set of beliefs and must be right at all costs.

And of course, you are not at all opinionated and equally, you are always right.

Except that leave means leave. Nothing you can say will change that although no doubt you and others on here will continue to argue that black is white.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

And of course, you are not at all opinionated and equally, you are always right.

Except that leave means leave. Nothing you can say will change that although no doubt you and others on here will continue to argue that black is white.

Yes we all know leave means leave.... but don't think its going to limit the right for one to voice a opinion that might be disagreeable to some on here because it won't as l myself accepted the result but that does not mean l or anybody else will keep quiet on a good many issues involving Brexit because we won't and if some don't like it well that is tough luck for them.