Brexit (Old)

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Your confusing argument with a debate or a negotiation,the sole purpose of an argument is to win [ask your mr's ]

Whilst the point may be to win, you don't achieve it by steamrollering your opponent with a refusal to listen to their point.

quite agree with you on the Mrs though...

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Here's something interesting...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47379308


I particularly like the following

It repeated analysis suggesting a no-deal scenario could leave the UK economy 6.3% to 9% smaller after 15 years, compared to what it would have been

'It said the worst-hit areas economically in a no-deal scenario would be Wales (-8.1%), Scotland (-8.0%), Northern Ireland (-9.1%) and the north east (-10.5%).'

In the North East it would appear that Turkeys do indeed vote for Christmas.

Now, as adults, can anyone on the remain side provide any research from the opposite perspective?

No, because it's impossible. The forecasts are based on known implications of leaving, but these need to be mitigated by the opportunities open to business and how industry will react to their liberation from restrictive EU regulations. No-one can know that in advance and that's why the forecasts are so negative.

However, experience shows that less regulation stimulates business.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

No, because it's impossible. The forecasts are based on known implications of leaving, but these need to be mitigated by the opportunities open to business and how industry will react to their liberation from restrictive EU regulations. No-one can know that in advance and that's why the forecasts are so negative.

However, experience shows that less regulation stimulates business

Less regulation also caused the 2008 Financial Crisis...[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added at 19:57 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------

Guaranteeing May’s promise to hold a vote on extending article 50

Yvette Cooper's amendment has been approved by MPs.

Ayes: 502

Noes: 20

Majority: 482

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Less regulation also caused the 2008 Financial Crisis...[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added at 19:57 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------

Guaranteeing May’s promise to hold a vote on extending article 50

Yvette Cooper's amendment has been approved by MPs.

Ayes: 502

Noes: 20

Majority: 482

On your first point, yes, that didn't help, but the issue is not to over-regulate. No-one is suggesting a free for all.

On the second, there will be no need to extend Article 50 if MPs sign up to the deal on offer. Nobody has a sensible alternative apart from 'no deal', which virtually no-one except the ERG wants, so with a written legal guarantee on the backstop, it should get through this time. At bloody last.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

However, experience shows that less regulation stimulates business.

Brexit brings with it more red tape, not less.

Could you give some examples of these "restrictive EU regulations", please, which business can be liberated from, and the perceived benefits to consumers?

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Could you give some examples of these "restrictive EU regulations", please, which business can be liberated from, and the perceived benefits to consumers?

When the EU manages with something like 49,000 bureaucrats compared to 332,800 in Englands Civil Service (does not include Scotland, Wales or NI). I wonder which has more bureaucracy?

[Carth]

So . . are we leaving, half leaving, or staying in?

And why do I get the feeling I've been led up a blind alley, kicked in the head and had my wallet stolen

Originally Posted by Angua

When the EU manages with something like 49,000 bureaucrats compared to 332,800 in Englands Civil Service (does not include Scotland, Wales or NI). I wonder which has more bureaucracy?

Simple. The EU.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Brexit brings with it more red tape, not less.

The whole world isn't just Europe, Andrew. And if the EU makes things difficult, it will be difficult for their exporters too. It will just encourage British industry to trade more with other countries to avoid the EU nonsense.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The whole world isn't just Europe, Andrew. And if the EU makes things difficult, it will be difficult for their exporters too. It will just encourage British industry to trade more with other countries to avoid the EU nonsense.

I've never said the world is just Europe.
I'm talking about when we're out of the EU.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I've never said the world is just Europe.
I'm talking about when we're out of the EU.

But that seems to have been your mindset, as if departure from the EU will bring the sky crashing in.

The world beyond Europe is where most of the economic growth will come from.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Please point out where I said that you had stated that "all immigrants commit crime"?

Not helpful...

You didn't. I was simply making my position clear for posterity.

---------- Post added at 13:01 ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I guess that there will be
- An Article 50 extension
- Then a second referendum. I don't agree with it and the choice of options will be controversial but I'm struggling to see how you end the deadlock whilst avoiding a nonsensical no-deal which would condemn the ruling party to a political abyss at the next election and many after.
At what stage will Theresa May step down is another intriguing question?

---------- Post added at 19:23 ---------- Previous post was at 19:19 ----------

We should all appreciate that there's wrong-uns in all nationalities and that freedom of movement does not prevent our dealing with criminal behaviour.

Indeed there is, but my point is that freedom of movement allows criminals to come here in in the first place. If they weren't simply waved through, criminals wouldn't be here to commit crimes in the UK(assuming that we carry out any necessary border checks). Ending freedom of movement would improve the quality and allow us to adjust the quantity of immigrants.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

You didn't. I was simply making my position clear for posterity.

---------- Post added at 13:01 ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 ----------



Indeed there is, but my point is that freedom of movement allows criminals to come here in in the first place. If they weren't simply waved through, criminals wouldn't be here to commit crimes in the UK(assuming that we carry out any necessary border checks). Ending freedom of movement would improve the quality and allow us to adjust the quantity of immigrants.

Thank you for replying to a point I didn’t make - much appreciated...

For posterity, I would like to point out that I have no intention of stealing either Meghan or Kate from the Princes Harry and William...

How will ending Freedom of Movement affect the rising number of non-EU migrants coming into the U.K.?

Net migration to the UK from countries outside the European Union has hit its highest level for 15 years, the Office for National Statistics says.

Figures show 261,000 more non-EU citizens came to the UK than left in the year ending September 2018 - the highest since 2004.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Thank you for replying to a point I didn’t make - much appreciated...

For posterity, I would like to point out that I have no intention of stealing either Meghan or Kate from the Princes Harry and William...

How will ending Freedom of Movement affect the rising number of non-EU migrants coming into the U.K.?

The new immigration policy will be designed to let in the foreign bodies we need and keep out those who would simply steal our jobs or come here to bum around and cause trouble.

We only need people from abroad who can fill our skills gaps and the jobs the Brits don't want or who can demonstrably support themselves. Students would also be welcome while they were in college or university on limited stay visas. We need to consider under what circumstances people with family links to UK citizens can be allowed into the country as well.