Brexit (Old)

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Sounds like 26% are a bit thick.

Agreed

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Agreed

Several posts have now been deleted - I see the pathetic jibes and digs is showing it's ugly head again - pack it in.

Picking someone up on how they have spelt something or used capitalisation is not acceptable and rather petty. It must not continue.

The next member to ignore team instructions will be placed on a winter break.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

That's a bit of a stretch. Our language isn't our culture.

One reason that the UK is attractive to foreign workers is that they tend to speak English as a second language rather than French or German.

As regards our culture vs Europe, as I've said before, we look alike but don't think alike.

Originally Posted by nomadking

Are you saying that foreign words and phrase haven't been incorporated into British culture. As they are foreign, it can hardly be classed as included in the English language. The French constantly complain about English words being included in their culture/language.


,[COLOR="Silver"]

<SNIP>

I'm drawing the distinction between language and culture. They are not the same.




---------- Post added at 13:47 ---------- Previous post was at 13:36 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

We largely do though. The differences between British and most European cultures are quite superficial. Mostly similar values, shared history and a Judeo-Christian background. You don't have huge cultural disconnects if you're in Europe, talking to European people, eating European food or so on.

The differences people usually cite are small and involve stereotypes. I.E Germans are more logical or Southern Europeans more laid back.

If you're somebody coming from Asia the difference between Asian culture and European culture would be more pronounced than the different between British and European culture. They would lump us in with the continent quite easily.

Instead of "largely" I'd use the term "superficially".

I agree with the point you make about Judeo-Christian background (which I'd have to call culture!). The uniting factor there is the Ten Commandments which then falls through into law.

Talking about law, the bulk of the European countries work off a Codex (based on the principles of Roman Law), which essentially tells you what you are allowed to do and anything else may be an offence; not quite as severe as I've put it but that's how Roman Law works. The EU behaves in strict accordance with Codex principles. British civil law is more around your obligations and what you are not allowed to do and is interpreted buy the Courts using the principle of precedent where possible and by reference to Parliament's intentions otherwise. These factors bear on people throughout their lives and thus result in cultural differences. We look alike but don't think alike.

The differences of culture are most easily seen in the degree of formality you see in, e.g. France & Germany, Eastern Europe. That stems in part from the rigid rules of grammar and word gender. Whereas English (and indeed Dutch) has significantly less of that, which feeds through into behaviour.

Our sense of humour is radically different from that in France and Germany (the Dutch and Scandinavians or more aligned our way as, incidentally, are the Polish).

A wonderful sub-topic.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s exactly the same. That’s the way taxation and public spending work.



Which isn’t evidence based.



I agree racism and xenophobia get out the vote for UKIP and Vote Leave. I also agree many racists lack the self awareness to realise they are racist.

“I’m not a racist, but...”, as they say.

Regardless of what the position is with regards to the net contribution or otherwise of people living here, we do not want to be taking in any immigrants that do not contribute to the UK financially or otherwise. We are not and cannot ever be an international social security system.

The evidence which you seek is plainly human nature. As human beings we are tribal and territorial animals. Even the less intelligent creatures in the animal kingdom tend to only accept newcomers to their group on the proviso that there are no shortages of things like space, food, water etc.

To unilaterally describe UKIP supporters and those who voted leave as xenophobic and racist is an over simplification to the point of being offensive.

[mrmistoffelees]

and there in a flash, no deal is pretty much confirmed as dead. and the last weapon May had is gone.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...er-eu-confirms

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

and there in a flash, no deal is pretty much confirmed as dead. and the last weapon May had is gone.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...er-eu-confirms

The workforce won't live very long if they start installing fences etc.

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

and there in a flash, no deal is pretty much confirmed as dead. and the last weapon May had is gone.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...er-eu-confirms

and it would break the good Friday agreement a legally biding treaty

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

The definition of "racist" varies between people.

What's more, some people associate valid concerns over specific ethnicities as racism.

Racism is a toxic topic and xenophobia is illogical and something quite different.

Exactly this (it's purposely designed to stop people airing their views under threat of being labelled a 'racist' and was successful for a number of years) or it is various forms of virtue signalling (they often get into this habit during their days at uni and one or two never grow out of it after entering the real world).

Listening to two of them trying to out trump each other about who is the more racist/anti racist between them is very tedious. I remember hearing one say that he'd got himself into "a prickly situation" and was immediately condemned as racist! This condemnation, of course, has to be done as loudly as possible in from of the max number of people to achieve the desired effect of the perpetrator.

Another person of a similar ilk thought it appropriate to walk around his local railway station demanding to know why none of the black staff were driving the trains, only white men. He completely ignored the fact that none of the drivers were women, but anti sexism in those days paid out less in PC brownie points.

Meanwhile, black people just got on with it in the face of actual racism.

---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:33 ----------

Originally Posted by Dave42

and it would break the good Friday agreement a legally biding treaty

If this happens, I hope to God that this doesn't start up the troubles In Ireland again. Similarly, if we leave without a deal I suspect that Scotland may decide to try to become independent and rejoin the EU.

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Exactly this (it's purposely designed to stop people airing their views under threat of being labelled a 'racist' and was successful for a number of years) or it is various forms of virtue signalling (they often get into this habit during their days at uni and one or two never grow out of it after entering the real world).

Listening to two of them trying to out trump each other about who is the more racist/anti racist between them is very tedious. I remember hearing one say that he'd got himself into "a prickly situation" and was immediately condemned as racist! This condemnation, of course, has to be done as loudly as possible in from of the max number of people to achieve the desired effect of the perpetrator.

Another person of a similar ilk thought it appropriate to walk around his local railway station demanding to know why none of the black staff were driving the trains, only white men. He completely ignored the fact that none of the drivers were women, but anti sexism in those days paid out less in PC brownie points.

Meanwhile, black people just got on with it in the face of actual racism.

---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:33 ----------



If this happens, I hope to God that this doesn't start up the troubles In Ireland again. Similarly, if we leave without a deal I suspect that Scotland may decide to try to become independent and rejoin the EU.

there be a very high chance it would sadly and one of big reasons I have always argued we need to leave with a deal a no deal brexit is worse of all worlds

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Exactly this (it's purposely designed to stop people airing their views under threat of being labelled a 'racist' and was successful for a number of years) or it is various forms of virtue signalling (they often get into this habit during their days at uni and one or two never grow out of it after entering the real world).

Listening to two of them trying to out trump each other about who is the more racist/anti racist between them is very tedious. I remember hearing one say that he'd got himself into "a prickly situation" and was immediately condemned as racist! This condemnation, of course, has to be done as loudly as possible in from of the max number of people to achieve the desired effect of the perpetrator.

Another person of a similar ilk thought it appropriate to walk around his local railway station demanding to know why none of the black staff were driving the trains, only white men. He completely ignored the fact that none of the drivers were women, but anti sexism in those days paid out less in PC brownie points.

Meanwhile, black people just got on with it in the face of actual racism.

---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:33 ----------



If this happens, I hope to God that this doesn't start up the troubles In Ireland again. Similarly, if we leave without a deal I suspect that Scotland may decide to try to become independent and rejoin the EU.

There would have to be a wall, a backstop in case the wall falls down and a multi billion £ leaving the UK fee.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Exactly this (it's purposely designed to stop people airing their views under threat of being labelled a 'racist' and was successful for a number of years) or it is various forms of virtue signalling (they often get into this habit during their days at uni and one or two never grow out of it after entering the real world).

Listening to two of them trying to out trump each other about who is the more racist/anti racist between them is very tedious. I remember hearing one say that he'd got himself into "a prickly situation" and was immediately condemned as racist! This condemnation, of course, has to be done as loudly as possible in from of the max number of people to achieve the desired effect of the perpetrator.

Another person of a similar ilk thought it appropriate to walk around his local railway station demanding to know why none of the black staff were driving the trains, only white men. He completely ignored the fact that none of the drivers were women, but anti sexism in those days paid out less in PC brownie points.

Meanwhile, black people just got on with it in the face of actual racism.

---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:33 ----------



If this happens, I hope to God that this doesn't start up the troubles In Ireland again. Similarly, if we leave without a deal I suspect that Scotland may decide to try to become independent and rejoin the EU.

It won't happen, the EU have given May enough rope to hang herself and she has. She's now backed into a corner with only two ways too go. Still, those who wanted restrictions on freedom of movement have got their wish....

[Carth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

and there in a flash, no deal is pretty much confirmed as dead. and the last weapon May had is gone.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...er-eu-confirms

You really think the EU would pay all that money to build and manage a hard border?

or are you suggesting the UK does it?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Carth

You really think the EU would pay all that money to build and manage a hard border?

or are you suggesting the UK does it?

Not that it will happen, but IF then I'd suspect to see both sides paying a sum

[jfman]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Regardless of what the position is with regards to the net contribution or otherwise of people living here, we do not want to be taking in any immigrants that do not contribute to the UK financially or otherwise. We are not and cannot ever be an international social security system.

The evidence which you seek is plainly human nature. As human beings we are tribal and territorial animals. Even the less intelligent creatures in the animal kingdom tend to only accept newcomers to their group on the proviso that there are no shortages of things like space, food, water etc.

To unilaterally describe UKIP supporters and those who voted leave as xenophobic and racist is an over simplification to the point of being offensive.

There’s no evidence we are an international social security system. It’s simply a myth, and ignoring the reality that immigrants are less likely to be reliant on benefits than our own population. I dont for a minute believe people travel across the continent for a life of luxury on Universal Credit.

I like the comparison of racists and xenophobes to animals though, as they clearly don’t demonstrate the intelligence that humans are capable of.