Brexit (Old)

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Dave42

No-deal Brexit plans put 3,500 troops on standby

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ns-for-no-deal

Keeps them off the dole I suppose.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

the public (bar the bonkers ones) don't want it, and parliament won't allow it.

As Brexit will happen, given the choice between May’s deal and no deal.......I think you’ll be surprised.

---------- Post added at 21:35 ---------- Previous post was at 21:30 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

TM is clearly running the clock down, but she will be hoping to wring a few concessions out of the EU as much as she’s hoping to tame her own party (and the DUP, if possible).

If it is a conscious strategy, it’s the right one, see the white of their eyes..etc.

But ........it’s just that her deal is pretty crap. I would be amazed if her deal, unless transformed by EU Capitulation would get through.

I never wanted to live in interesting times. I still don't.

[1andrew1]

Suggestion here that if Theresa May gets the DUP back on board, she may then get sufficient votes from her party to get her deal through.

Theresa May will be within 20 votes of winning a parliamentary majority for her Brexit deal if she can gain assurances from the EU that will persuade the Democratic Unionist party to back her deal, senior ministers and Tory MPs believe.
One cabinet minister said they believed the success of the prime minister’s deal hinged entirely on a last-bid to win round the DUP. Another MP said they saw the Northern Irish party as the “British standard” who would give them the reassurance they needed to fall in behind.
“You unlock huge numbers of Tory MPs if you can get something the DUP can accept,” the cabinet minister said. “There’s no point at all in holding a vote until you win back the DUP. That is the absolute priority.”
Several cabinet sources played down the prospect of any efforts to try to form a coalition of support with Labour MPs and said all efforts were focused on regaining the DUP’s support.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-senior-tories

She might do.

As I said earlier the fact she is immune for a year from a Conservative vote of no confidence means that the ERG and allies do not have an easy way of taking control and forcing no deal. For Brexiters the risk of a 'softer' Brexit or no Brexit is now higher should her deal fail than it was before the letters went in. For ages the ERG held that card over her head as leverage but now that leverage is gone and May herself knows that Brexit is probably the last, and only, thing she'll do as PM in the short time she has remaining.

Whose going to stop her if she choses anything but no deal?

Parliament? They want a softer Brexit than she does.
The Cabinet? See above, few no dealers in her cabinet.
ERG? Took their chance, missed.
Tory rebels brining down their own government? Maybe, but do they get a form a no deal Government with Parliament being so Remainy?

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Dave42

No-deal Brexit plans put 3,500 troops on standby

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ns-for-no-deal

I assume this is to calm the crowds giddy with all the wonderful things that will happen to the UK as promised by Rees-Mogg et al

[jfman]

Ending freedom of movement, and ending aspirational net migration targets. What’s going on here then?

[Stephen]

What's next building a wall?

[heero_yuy]

Quote from Stephen:


What's next building a wall?

Funded by the EU and built by Polish brickies.

[Sephiroth]

I see all the usual suspects sniping from the sidelines here.

Fact is that the Referendum delivered a LEAVE result. It looks like TM is going to respect that vote one way or the other.

That Parliament is "Remainy" just goes to show how undemocratic they are and as for the ERG, they need to withdraw their horns and do everything to assist the correct democratic outcome. LEAVE.

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I see all the usual suspects sniping from the sidelines here.

Fact is that the Referendum delivered a LEAVE result. It looks like TM is going to respect that vote one way or the other.

That Parliament is "Remainy" just goes to show how undemocratic they are and as for the ERG, they need to withdraw their horns and do everything to assist the correct democratic outcome. LEAVE.

em who voted for the mps and it was after the Referendum so how is that undemocratic

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I see all the usual suspects sniping from the sidelines here.

Fact is that the Referendum delivered a LEAVE result. It looks like TM is going to respect that vote one way or the other.

That Parliament is "Remainy" just goes to show how undemocratic they are and as for the ERG, they need to withdraw their horns and do everything to assist the correct democratic outcome. LEAVE.

That's not how our Representative Democracy works - we elect an MP to represent the Constituency (not just those who voted for them), but we do not have the right to mandate how they should think or vote.

Members of the House of Commons have a triple mandate - they represent all the people of their constituency, their party and the interests of the country. It is a tenet of representative democracy that MPs are not delegates for their constituents.

This means that, while the views of constituents are frequently considered, the actions of MPs are governed by their determination of the best interests of their constituency, their party and the country as a whole.

It was Edmund Burke who put it best, I think - the difference between a representative, who should take account of their constituents’ views but still use their own judgement in the legislature, and a delegate, who simple mirrors their constituents’ views. In his 1774 speech to the electors at Bristol at the conclusion of the poll that elected him he explained what would come to be known as Burkean representation:

“It ought to be the happiness and glory of a representative to live in the strictest union, the closest correspondence, and the most unreserved communication with his constituents. Their wishes ought to have great weight with him; their opinion, high respect; their business, unremitting attention. It is his duty to sacrifice his repose, his pleasures, his satisfactions, to theirs; and above all, ever, and in all cases, to prefer their interest to his own.

But his unbiased opinion, his mature judgment, his enlightened conscience, he ought not to sacrifice to you, to any man, or to any set of men living. These he does not derive from your pleasure; no, nor from the law and the constitution. They are a trust from Providence, for the abuse of which he is deeply answerable. Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.”

If we are unhappy with our MP, we can de-select them.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

That's not how our Representative Democracy works - we elect an MP to represent the Constituency (not just those who voted for them), but we do not have the right to mandate how they should think or vote.

Members of the House of Commons have a triple mandate - they represent all the people of their constituency, their party and the interests of the country. It is a tenet of representative democracy that MPs are not delegates for their constituents.

This means that, while the views of constituents are frequently considered, the actions of MPs are governed by their determination of the best interests of their constituency, their party and the country as a whole.

It was Edmund Burke who put it best, I think - the difference between a representative, who should take account of their constituents’ views but still use their own judgement in the legislature, and a delegate, who simple mirrors their constituents’ views. In his 1774 speech to the electors at Bristol at the conclusion of the poll that elected him he explained what would come to be known as Burkean representation:



If we are unhappy with our MP, we can de-select them.

All blather. MPs should respect the Referendum result. True that Remain constituencies can expect their MPs to pay a degree of respect to their position, ultimately the MPs must collectively respect the result.

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

All blather. MPs should respect the Referendum result. True that Remain constituencies can expect their MPs to pay a degree of respect to their position, ultimately the MPs must collectively respect the result.

the people voted for these MP's after the Referendum result just stating a FACT

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

All blather. MPs should respect the Referendum result. True that Remain constituencies can expect their MPs to pay a degree of respect to their position, ultimately the MPs must collectively respect the result.

So you think the basic tenets of our Parliamentary Democracy are "all blather" - that says a lot more about you than the state of our Parliamentary Democracy.