Brexit (Old)

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

I'm sure you live in hope that it will all go tits up and we will be once again one big happy family in the EU.

It's too late for that now we can't go back on the same terms we left on. I see no deal as the only option to stop us from getting shafted

So what you're saying is, we shouldn't have voted to leave because we'll be in a worse position than now ??

Its taken time, but the penny has dropped for Brexiters.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I actually think May's plan will happen. There's no united hard leave side, just a bunch of ego-heavy personalities without a plan.

I’m not sure she’s got the numbers.

Labour have said they’ll vote against anything the Tory’s come back with, and KS confirmed yesterday, and the majority will vote with the whip.

SNP will be against.

LibDems will be against

At least 80+ Tory’s will be against.

DUP will be against and other N.I MPs probably will be.

1 green will be against

Unless Labour go with it, it ain’t going to happen..................

---------- Post added at 21:39 ---------- Previous post was at 21:33 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

So what you're saying is, we shouldn't have voted to leave because we'll be in a worse position than now ??

That’s quite obviously what he’s not saying.

Its taken time, but the penny has dropped for Brexiters.

Mod Edit - abusive comment removed

Anyone posting personal abuse will be infracted - do not repeat this behaviour.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Anyone posting personal abuse will be infracted - do not repeat this behaviour.

Doesn’t make me wrong.

Seriously, I apologise. However, it was an inflammatory statement designed to provoke a response. I didn’t want to disappoint.

[Gavin78]

Originally Posted by Mr K

So what you're saying is, we shouldn't have voted to leave because we'll be in a worse position than now ??

Its taken time, but the penny has dropped for Brexiters.

Penny dropped? you are kidding right? we need to leave without a deal, make free trade around the world. Tell the EU to stuff the 40bn we owe them and only make concessions to pay that back when they can offer a reasonable trade deal.

We are the first country to ever leave the block and like any divorce there has to be a settlement on both sides. The EU were happy to demand payments we owe for future commitments but not so quick to return on investments we have contributed to over the years of our membership.

When people voted to have a trade deal with the EU first time around there wasn't a referendum offered when the EU wanted to expand on what they are now. Nobody was given a choice and asked if that is what they wanted, Cameron as stupid as he was thought he had it all in one bag when he offered a referendum clearly those that advise him didn't see how upset the public were.

Originally Posted by Mr K

Its taken time, but the penny has dropped for Brexiters.

Stop posting provocative rubbish - Last warning!!!

[1andrew1]

That's probably an inept phrase but I think a lot of Leavers were sold an impossible dream. Many tried to explain this to them but were understandably not believed at the time. So, I can understand many having buyer's remorse. This guy here has got it particularly badly. https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...es-for-brexit/

<-- Well this guy hasn't and still wants to leave the EU. It can be done and it's not impossible, I don't care what you Remainers say. It should be a Brexiteer leading the country not a weak Remainer.

[nomadking]

This agreement is not a proposed deal in any sense of the word. It is not a case of "agree to this" and everything is done and dusted. Any possible deal has yet to be specified.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by nomadking

This agreement is not a proposed deal in any sense of the word. It is not a case of "agree to this" and everything is done and dusted. Any possible deal has yet to be specified.

Well, the deal has been negotiated over two years and this is as close as we can get to an agreement. It's the only deal in town, so we need to accept it or reject it. No other options are available.

If the opposition parties all vote against the deal, then we will leave without a deal.

That is a fact, and if the opposition does vote the agreement down, the electorate will never forgive them when they see the short term disruption after March next year, which they will come to realise could be avoided. At that point, Theresa May will be hailed as the only politician who appeared to know what she was doing.

Very few like the deal because it doesn't do everything we want. We could have taken a harder line, as David Davis was doing, but his stance was not working and the EU were not budging. He might have been right, the EU might have had to give way in the end, but TM determined that we could not risk the consequences of getting too close to the wire.

My main concern with this agreement, which is only about our 21 month transition, by the way, is the issue of the customs union. I and many others will want to be assured that there is no way we will be tied into this forever because this will mean we cannot do our own trade deals.

[nomadking]

If this is the final deal, then how come all it seems to mention is allowing freedom of movement, special arrangements for NI, having to follow EU rules, and the UK having to obey the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU)?

The European Commission and the United Kingdom's negotiators have reached an agreement on the entirety of the Withdrawal Agreement of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the European Union and the European Atomic Energy Community, as provided for under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union.
The Withdrawal Agreement establishes the terms of the UK's withdrawal from the EU. It ensures that the withdrawal will happen in an orderly manner, and offers legal certainty once the Treaties and EU law will cease to apply to the UK.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

<-- Well this guy hasn't and still wants to leave the EU. It can be done and it's not impossible, I don't care what you Remainers say. It should be a Brexiteer leading the country not a weak Remainer.

No one's saying it's impossible to leave, just that what was promised could never match reality.I too would have preferred a Brexiter sorting out the situation they advocated but we did have a couple of Brexit secretaries one of whom resigned over the deal he helped negotiate, lol. Maybe a Leave Prime Minister would have resigned over a deal they helped negotiate too.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by nomadking

If this is the final deal, then how come all it seems to mention is allowing freedom of movement, special arrangements for NI, having to follow EU rules, and the UK having to obey the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU)?

Because its a rubbish deal, signed in a panic because of the stupid deadline we set ourselves. However its the best we're going to get now. As i've said all along the EU hold all the cards, our position is weak hence the deal we've got.

I'm beginning to think May might get this through if she paints the alternative as an apocalypse 'no deal' or Corbyn Govt. MPs always will vote for themselves first, country second. Slowly but surely they'll come onside and there might be a rebellion in the Labour ranks which might be enough.

[denphone]

Jonathan Isaby, editor of BrexitCentral.

Unconfirmed and from a single (always previously reliable) source - but hearing that the 48 letters are in and Downing Street are preparing for a no confidence motion in Theresa May as Conservative leader

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46228454

EU leaders have dismissed talk of renegotiating the draft Brexit deal and warned the UK's political situation could make a "no-deal" more likely.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said there was "no question" of reopening talks as a document was "on the table".

Meanwhile French PM Edouard Philippe said there was a need to prepare for a no-deal because of UK "uncertainty".