Brexit (Old)

[pip08456]

OK Hugh so called hard brexit it is then. Fasten your seat belt and prepare for the ride!

The option on the referendum ballot paper will be upheld.

[1andrew1]

Which party is better at negotiations? The EU or the UK.

Well, since the Brexit vote, the EU has signed trade deals with Japan, Canada and, last week, Singapore.

And the UK? Still can't agree on an exit with the EU!

[Pierre]

Well the Japan deal started talks in 2013

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8450476.html

And then in 2009 with Canada


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comp...rade_Agreement

And Singapore in 2010

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/legisl...-singapore-fta


So for your three examples minimum 5 years, maximum 9 years.

So to get where we are in less than two, pretty fff’nn good, what do you think?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

So to get where we are in less than two, pretty fff’nn good, what do you think?

Is 0% really ff’nn good? From post 2265

But as long as there is no solution for the Irish border, as long as the Good Friday agreement is not fully secured, for us in our parliament progress is 0 per cent

Originally Posted by Pierre

Well the Japan deal started talks in 2013

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8450476.html

And then in 2009 with Canada


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comp...rade_Agreement

And Singapore in 2010

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/legisl...-singapore-fta


So for your three examples minimum 5 years, maximum 9 years.

So to get where we are in less than two, pretty fff’nn good, what do you think?

And if takes that long for trade deals, and we don’t have any at the moment, the financial outlook for the UK is sub-optimal.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Hugh

[/B]

Agreed - I don’t have a fear of falling; I have a fear of what happens at the fall’s end...

---------- Post added at 21:49 ---------- Previous post was at 20:36 ----------



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...box=1540421178

The European Parliament’s Brexit coordinator has rejected Theresa May’s suggestion that a deal is “95 per cent done”, as Brussels warned it will not be bounced into an agreement.

Guy Verhofstadt said the withdrawal agreement needed to prevent no deal was “0 per cent done” as far as MEPs were concerned, because of the lack of a solution to the Irish border issue.

“Progress on the Brexit negotiations can be 90 per cent, 95 per cent or even 99 per cent,” Mr Verhofstadt said.

“But as long as there is no solution for the Irish border, as long as the Good Friday agreement is not fully secured, for us in our parliament progress is 0 per cent.”

The European Parliament has a veto on the final Brexit deal and has said it would kill any agreement that does not prevent a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Hang on, I thought the EU was undemocratic! Pesky democratically elected representatives being able to block the European Commission...

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Is 0% really ff’nn good? From post 2265

None of the EU trade deals had the obstacles that Brexit currently has. The EU are both the irresistible force and the immovable object in the Brexit case. Your question was entirely flawed and in the usual spirit of talking the UK down.


---------- Post added at 10:44 ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 ----------

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Hang on, I thought the EU was undemocratic! Pesky democratically elected representatives being able to block the European Commission...

You've invented an argument here. The EC and Parliament are at one about the Irish Border. So those scheisters in the European Parliament, whose aim is to trump national parliaments through federalisation, would not be over-ruling the EC. Again, an artificially construed sneer.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

[COLOR="Blue"]None of the EU trade deals had the obstacles that Brexit currently has. The EU are both the irresistible force and the immovable object in the Brexit case. Your question was entirely flawed and in the usual spirit of talking the UK down.

On the contrary, I'm always talking the UK up. Which country's nationals are behind many of the EU's great trade deals. The UK.
It's those people who even today dismiss thorough and impartial analysis from the UK civil service in derogatory terms as it doesn't fit their beliefs.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

On the contrary, I'm always talking the UK up. Which country's nationals are behind many of the EU's great trade deals. The UK.
It's those people who even today dismiss thorough and impartial analysis from the UK civil service in derogatory terms as it doesn't fit their beliefs.

Yes we always comment there's Andrew talking up the uk again

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Yes we always comment there's Andrew talking up the uk again

You normally include the phrase at least once in the midst of your in-depth analysis.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Which party is better at negotiations? The EU or the UK.

Well, since the Brexit vote, the EU has signed trade deals with Japan, Canada and, last week, Singapore.

And the UK? Still can't agree on an exit with the EU!

One or two reminders are required here.

First, you cannot compare the length of time it takes to get a trade deal with the EU with the time it should take us to forge trade deals with other countries. It has taken years of negotiations for the EU to finalise the deals you mention, partially because all the countries of the EU try to put their oars in. Canada threatened to walk away from the negotiations in frustration after about 7 years of this, so I would not say at all that the EU is good at getting trade deals. Note that after 10 years there is still no deal between the EU and the US.

Secondly, our trade deal negotiations with the EU should be much more straight forward because everything is already harmonised with them, having been a member of the EU ourselves all this time.

Thirdly, discussions between the UK and other countries have been taking place during the current withdrawal negotiatons, and it should be possible to put in place suitable trade arrangements, at least as an interim measure, before agreeing any detailed changes with those countries when we leave the EU. I'm sure we will have documents to be signed immediately at the end of March 2019.

Despite all the noises off, it is really only the NI border that needs sorting out now as far as the withdrawal agreement is concerned, an issue that has been deliberately hyped up to make it look like a major accomplishment to have achieved agreement between the EU and the UK. Be prepared to see a breakthrough at the eleventh hour. That's how the EU operates.

---------- Post added at 13:16 ---------- Previous post was at 13:09 ----------

Originally Posted by jonbxx

The European Parliament has a veto on the final Brexit deal and has said it would kill any agreement that does not prevent a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.


Hang on, I thought the EU was undemocratic! Pesky democratically elected representatives being able to block the European Commission...

That quote in bold above is absolutely laughable. I assume this guy has not yet worked out that if they vote down a proposed deal with the EU, there will be a hard border anyway, assuming that the EU is actually serious about putting one in!

The UK has come up with several possible solutions. If the EU doesn't come off its high horse soon, it will be left with precisely the situation it says it is seeking to avoid.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

One or two reminders are required here.
First, you cannot compare the length of time it takes to get a trade deal with the EU with the time it should take us to forge trade deals with other countries. It has taken years of negotiations for the EU to finalise the deals you mention, partially because all the countries of the EU try to put their oars in. Canada threatened to walk away from the negotiations in frustration after about 7 years of this, so I would not say at all that the EU is good at getting trade deals. Note that after 10 years there is still no deal between the EU and the US

The EU has more trade deals with countries than anyone else so I'm not sure what all that baloney is about them taking a long time. Do you have any actual evidence to prove your point?
You also seem to take issue with countries exercising their sovereign rights. It comes across as Schrodinger's Brexiter - someone who wants the UK to leave the EU so it can exercise its sovereign rights but criticises countries in the EU for exercising their sovereign rights.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

And if takes that long for trade deals, and we don’t have any at the moment, the financial outlook for the UK is sub-optimal.

Only trade deals with the EU seem to be interminable.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

On the contrary, I'm always talking the UK up. Which country's nationals are behind many of the EU's great trade deals. The UK.
It's those people who even today dismiss thorough and impartial analysis from the UK civil service in derogatory terms as it doesn't fit their beliefs.

The Olly Robbins' Remainer credentials, as with TM's and her weasel words that she'll give the Brexit the people voted for (52/48?), that discredits the civil service's impartiality.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The EU has more trade deals with countries than anyone else so I'm not sure what all that baloney is about them taking a long time. Do you have any actual evidence to prove your point?
You also seem to take issue with countries exercising their sovereign rights. It comes across as Schrodinger's Brexiter - someone who wants the UK to leave the EU so it can exercise its sovereign rights but criticises countries in the EU for exercising their sovereign rights.

#2268 from Pierre.

I have not taken issue with countries exercising their sovereign rights! I am simply pointing out that doing a negotiation with the EU is actually doing a negotiation with 27 countries. This is not the case in respect of any other country with whom we will be and are negotiating.

There is no difference of opinion that I can ascertain in respect of there also being EU trade deals with other countries, so I am not sure why you have made that point.

---------- Post added at 13:28 ---------- Previous post was at 13:25 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Is 0% really ff’nn good? From post 2265

You know very well that most of the withdrawal arrangements are in place. That's what the 95% was referring to.

0% merely reflects the fact that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.