General : Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by denphone

Unless UKTV and the BBC budge from their intransigence l doubt it Dave.

It could just as easily be VM who are being intransigent.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by pip08456

It could just as easily be VM who are being intransigent.

Possibly pip.

[Dave42]

all we can do is hope common sense take place and they talk and sort a deal out

[flummox]

Originally Posted by denphone

Unless UKTV and the BBC budge from their intransigence l doubt it Dave.

Originally Posted by denphone

Who said VM gave in to ITV's demands? as no one knows the ins and outs of the deal.

Well it's pretty clear which way your bread is buttered, Richard

[Dave42]

Official UKTV
‏
Verified account

@UKTV
3m
3 minutes ago


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Hi Paul, we’ve been talking with Virgin, but it’s very unlikely UKTV will be able to return to the platform. We would suggest you try other providers.


looks like uktv don't want a deal at all

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Dave42

Official UKTV
‏
Verified account

@UKTV
3m
3 minutes ago


More
Hi Paul, we’ve been talking with Virgin, but it’s very unlikely UKTV will be able to return to the platform. We would suggest you try other providers.


looks like uktv don't want a deal at all

If they didn't want a deal why would they be bothered even talking to VM?

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by alwaysabear

There is always a choice and how do we know they gave into demands?

Because otherwise ITV wouldn't have lifted their threat to cut off the feeds to VM. These talks have been going on for a loooooong time, but, all of a sudden, 24 hours after putting the pressure on VM (whist knowing that the VM negotiating position had been weakened as a result of the removal of the UKTV channels), an agreement is made.

VM had a Hobsons choice when it came to the ITV channels and ITV PLC knew this

Of course, the details of the deal are unlikely to be made public due to the commercially sensitive nature of it.

Obviously, VM have tried to get the best value that they can for their money by ensuring that they get the full portfolio of ITV material, an agreement for cloud recording etc.

I now fully expect Channel 4, Channel 5 and possibly S4C to ask VM for retransmission fees.

---------- Post added at 19:47 ---------- Previous post was at 19:43 ----------

Originally Posted by flummox

Well it's pretty clear which way your bread is buttered, Richard

What do you mean by that? Your comment doesn't make any sense.

---------- Post added at 19:50 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

Who said VM gave in to ITV's demands? as no one knows the ins and outs of the deal.

---------- Post added at 17:53 ---------- Previous post was at 17:47 ----------



l doubt it as some said that after the Sky Basics dispute and that did not materialise.

For the reasons I gave earlier, the Sky basics issue was a whole different ball game.

---------- Post added at 19:58 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

Originally Posted by oxfordmark

TO get UHD you need Sky Multiscreen too which takes the cost of the equipment down to £65

---------- Post added at 15:42 ---------- Previous post was at 15:07 ----------

So I called VM and the guy said they are allowing early terminations as good will.

He said he would move me to basic TV so i could get BB for £34. But when i worked out TV with Sky, the total came to more.

When I called back to cancel the BB too, they offered me a BB only price price that matched the total with Sky. So i am having Sky TV (Sports, Cinema, all HD channels) and VM BB.

I felt bad doing it, do not know why. But i feel VM are only in it for BB (they even said they were not investing in TV as much a few years back.

Up to press, only a small number of VM customers were being allowed to leave penalty free. It will be interesting to learn if this is now a blanket policy for anyone who asks to be released.

If so, this is welcome news, but VM would have been very wise to have done as the previous owners of VM did with the Sky basics dispute and let unhappy customers leave right from the start. Short time income has been put before medium and long term revenue streams.

If they have brought this in as general policy, I would hope that any exit fees paid during the last week will be refunded. Such a move will also weaken the VM claim that their contract designed to stop customers leaving when any type or number of channels are removed was not unfair; I don't think that describing it as a goodwill gesture will cut the mustard with anybody.

---------- Post added at 20:07 ---------- Previous post was at 19:58 ----------

Originally Posted by alwaysabear

I am sure a deal will be done eventually with UKTV, there is a lot of posturing going on from both sides and unfortunately its the customer who suffers.

I agree, for the FTA channels at least.

The events of today have, for the first time, given an indication that VM have begun to realise the enormity of what they have done and their foolish response to the consequences thereof.

[Itshim]

Walked in to this last night. One phone call got me a£10 discount for a year.Said honestly l don't watch that much TV but Freeview would cover most of my needs . Had only just sign a new deal as well !

[RichardCoulter]

I'm pleased for you as an individual, but all these discounts to appease and retain customers will have exceeded what VM hoped to save from the UKTV carriage deal.

This is even without factoring in the downgrades, cancellation of up to three services, extra staff costs etc etc.

The longer this goes on, the more that VM will be digging themselves deeper into a hole, making it harder and harder to get out of before becoming impossible.

If they give in and make an agreement with UKTV as they have with ITV, the other channel operators will see VM as an easier target to obtain increased carriage fees, but I don't think that they have any other option now as the damage of doing otherwise is far greater.

Damage limitation is now they best chance they have.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I'm pleased for you as an individual, but all these discounts to appease and retain customers will have exceeded what VM hoped to save from the UKTV carriage deal.

This is even without factoring in the downgrades, cancellation of up to three services, extra staff costs etc etc.

The longer this goes on, the more that VM will be digging themselves deeper into a hole, making it harder and harder to get out of before becoming impossible.

If they give in and make an agreement with UKTV as they have with ITV, the other channel operators will see VM as an easier target to obtain increased carriage fees, but I don't think that they have any other option now as the damage of doing otherwise is far greater.

Damage limitation is now they best chance they have.

Can you prove any of that as tangibly true?

[alwaysabear]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I'm pleased for you as an individual, but all these discounts to appease and retain customers will have exceeded what VM hoped to save from the UKTV carriage deal.

This is even without factoring in the downgrades, cancellation of up to three services, extra staff costs etc etc.

The longer this goes on, the more that VM will be digging themselves deeper into a hole, making it harder and harder to get out of before becoming impossible.

If they give in and make an agreement with UKTV as they have with ITV, the other channel operators will see VM as an easier target to obtain increased carriage fees, but I don't think that they have any other option now as the damage of doing otherwise is far greater.

Damage limitation is now they best chance they have.

More wild speculation any proof of your statement again?

[RichardCoulter]

It's partly my analysis of the situation and partly facts, this is now being picked up by the media:

http://www.seenit.co.uk/virgin-media...pat-with-uktv/

Think about it, not everyone will be getting a discount, but there have been lots of one off credits in the region of £20 to £50 and recurring discounts of £3 a month upwards.

If we take the case of Itshim, VM have had to give him £10 off per month to keep his custom. It wouldn't have cost VM anywhere near that to provide him with the UKTV channels as an individual customer. It costs them pennies, not pounds, when the cost of providing each channel to each customer.

Then, they will have spent money on the extra staff time that all this has taken up, whilst at the same time facing an unprecedented number of people calling to cancel (don't forget, many will not just be cancelling the TV service either). Ofcom have received complaints that customers are unable to cancel because they simply cannot get through, which is in itself proof of how bad the situation is.

Then, there will be the loss of projected revenue from people paying less or nothing at all due to downgrades or full cancellations. In the future because, as Chad said, people will have lost confidence in the platform to continue to provide the channels that they want there will be a slowdown in customer additions to counteract the churn caused as a result of this. On top of that, people were being prevented from leaving under threat of early exit fees or will have actually had to pay them.

The resultant resentment caused by this won't easily be forgotten by both present subscribers who were effectively forced to stay and former customers who left. The best advertising any business can have is word of mouth recommendation, but it works the other way if people are saying how poorly they were treated after complaining that they had lost channels showing series that they were watching.

For reasons I have gone into before, it's likely that the carriage costs to VM will now be inflated.

And, on top of all this, I can still see an agreement with UKTV being made to get some or all of their channels back onto the platform. In the end, I think that they will find that they have no other choice as, to not to, would be the worst of the two choices that they now have.

[jfman]

That’s all pretty much an opinion piece you have linked to that carries no more weight than a forum post from anyone here.

You have given a single example of a poster being offered a decent discount, and cite a number of smaller discounts and one off payments. However there are other factors - how many would get discounts anyway by routinely threatening to cancel, rather than genuine strong feeling over UKTV.

Your assertion of this having massive consequences based on a handful of forum posts is no more valid than me claiming the other three and a half million subscribers are happy.

The subscriber numbers and ARPU figures stood up in the Sky Basics dispute over genuinely compelling and unique content. There’s no way it’ll take a hit over a handful of freeview channels and repeats. No matter how strongly you feel - you seem to be making most noise about it - even you haven’t cancelled.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

It's partly my analysis of the situation and partly facts, this is now being picked up by the media:

http://www.seenit.co.uk/virgin-media...pat-with-uktv/

Think about it, not everyone will be getting a discount, but there have been lots of one off credits in the region of £20 to £50 and recurring discounts of £3 a month upwards.

If we take the case of Itshim, VM have had to give him £10 off per month to keep his custom. It wouldn't have cost VM anywhere near that to provide him with the UKTV channels as an individual customer. It costs them pennies, not pounds, when the cost of providing each channel to each customer.

Then, they will have spent money on the extra staff time that all this has taken up, whilst at the same time facing an unprecedented number of people calling to cancel (don't forget, many will not just be cancelling the TV service either). Ofcom have received complaints that customers are unable to cancel because they simply cannot get through, which is in itself proof of how bad the situation is.

Then, there will be the loss of projected revenue from people paying less or nothing at all due to downgrades or full cancellations. In the future because, as Chad said, people will have lost confidence in the platform to continue to provide the channels that they want there will be a slowdown in customer additions to counteract the churn caused as a result of this. On top of that, people were being prevented from leaving under threat of early exit fees or will have actually had to pay them.

The resultant resentment caused by this won't easily be forgotten by both present subscribers who were effectively forced to stay and former customers who left. The best advertising any business can have is word of mouth recommendation, but it works the other way if people are saying how poorly they were treated after complaining that they had lost channels showing series that they were watching.

For reasons I have gone into before, it's likely that the carriage costs to VM will now be inflated.

And, on top of all this, I can still see an agreement with UKTV being made to get some or all of their channels back onto the platform. In the end, I think that they will find that they have no other choice as, to not to, would be the worst of the two choices that they now have.

VM are not giving that many credits or discounts out really. What they are giving is relatively small. Especially if you look at revenue and customers all together as well as revenue generated from other services too.

It also won't cost 'pennies' to give customers those channels.

The UKTV channels can easily be gotten on freeview and for a small monthly payment the rest of them. So IMO it's really not a big deal at all.

Its not like Sky Basics where at the time Sky was the only other platform to view them . This time they can keep VM and easily still have access to some or all other channels. I don't believe this matter is as big a deal as some people are making out.

[Joedm45]

Well, that escalated quickly. Hopefully VM have realised that in this day and age of social media, it doesn't take long to damage the reputation of a big company. Can you imagine if Facebook and Twitter were the size they are now when the Sky channels were removed.

Personally I didn't watch much on those channels, I'm just annoyed that this has blown up at the same time as my current deal expires, haven't even bothered phoning them to renegotiate just yet seeing as the phone lines are likely to be jammed and the staff are probaby pretty peeved at every phone call being an argument