General : Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels

[spankysmagicpian]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

As per the BBC Radio 4 programme 'The Media Show', a poll shows that 43% of VM customers say that they will be at least considering leaving VM because of this. Not the majority of customers no, but enough to ruin the TV side. As many people find it better value to obtain telephony and broadband from the same supplier in a triple play offering, this may well have a detrimental affect on their other services too.

I've priced up Sky and even with offers, I'd be paying £71 and that's without landline, BB or BT sport. Factor in landline and BB from Sky (max 71Mbs) and I'm up to £99 a month without BT Sport. I'm paying Virgin £100 a month for the VIP with 2 x V6.

I won't miss UKTV that much.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by spankysmagicpian

I've priced up Sky and even with offers, I'd be paying £71 and that's without landline, BB or BT sport. Factor in landline and BB from Sky (max 71Mbs) and I'm up to £99 a month without BT Sport. I'm paying Virgin £100 a month for the VIP with 2 x V6.

I won't miss UKTV that much.

I've just set my recordings for next week. There was nothing on the UKTV channels worth recording. I shan't miss them either.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I've just set my recordings for next week. There was nothing on the UKTV channels worth recording. I shan't miss them either.

Think we got that message OB (several times now ! ). But there are more VM subscribers than you and many do value the UKTV channels, hence the uproar.

Originally Posted by oxfordmark

Should posts about ITV channels leaving be kept to the relevant thread?

Keep it all in this one thread (Title Updated).

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by spankysmagicpian

I've priced up Sky and even with offers, I'd be paying £71 and that's without landline, BB or BT sport. Factor in landline and BB from Sky (max 71Mbs) and I'm up to £99 a month without BT Sport. I'm paying Virgin £100 a month for the VIP with 2 x V6.

I won't miss UKTV that much.

wouldn't you have to buy a extra box too for multiroom with sky

[telegramsam]

Originally Posted by Dave42

wouldn't you have to buy a extra box too for multiroom with sky

Not sure if you can get a free mini Q box still,when I switched to Sky I got a free mini Q box for free.

[Gavin-D]

Originally Posted by telegramsam

Not sure if you can get a free mini Q box still when I switched to Sky I got a free mini Q box for free.

£20 atm I believe for a 2nd box the current batch of offers expire just before midnight

I did notice this in the Yorkshire Post article ;

A long-running dispute between Virgin Media and ITV means that subscribers could be saying goodbye to the broadcaster’s channels,
which would mean no access to shows like Love Island.

Which seems like a bonus to me, not an issue

[Gavin-D]

Originally Posted by Paul M

I did notice this in the Yorkshire Post article ;



Which seems like a bonus to me, not an issue

Couldn't have happened at a better time seeing as it's the final on Monday

[djmagnifique]

Originally Posted by Gavin-D

£20 atm I believe for a 2nd box the current batch of offers expire just before midnight

New customers can get Sky Cinema free up until midnight as well.

[japitts]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Or maybe you could describe VM's behaviour as trying not to rock the boat as far as their negotiations with UKTV and future scrutiny by Ofcom is concerned.

UKTV is actively trying to cajole VM viewers over to other platforms rather than continue negotiating. I think that smacks of bad faith and bullying behaviour.

I hope Ofcom come down hard on UKTV. They will, if they have any backbone. VM is right to hold its head up above this and just re-state its position.

Ok there's some merit in that argument, with a couple of provisos..

1: VM claiming the new channels are replacements, they're nothing of the sort and they know it.

2: "We will take the free channels but they're stopping us". Anyone who wants any of them back, wants the lot back. VM's position here smacks of opportunism.

3: UKTV claiming no contact from VM - I'd expect to see both parties not only talking behind closed doors, but putting out at least a semblance of a unified "we're both trying" approach.

Maybe UKTV are in denial over the value of their product - but the PR storm would seem to suggest VM may have underestimated this a wee tad...

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Oh, come on, Richard, so fatalistic of you! Did you really expect Virgin to tolerate any longer being charged to carry free UKTV channels and not getting the on demand programming they expected to be provided from the previous contract?

Customers are demanding fewer price rises but some of them do not appreciate that a bit of hard bargaining is required to keep those rises to a minimum.

You really do have a short memory if you do not recollect the aggro resulting from the withdrawal of the Sky channels some years back. All those people who were denied the opportunity to follow that 'trending' series called 'Lost'!

The fact is, sometimes you have to stand up for what is right, despite the pain. That's what VM is doing, and I would not expect any less.

---------- Post added at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was at 19:18 ----------



Or maybe you could describe VM's behaviour as trying not to rock the boat as far as their negotiations with UKTV and future scrutiny by Ofcom is concerned.

UKTV is actively trying to cajole VM viewers over to other platforms rather than continue negotiating. I think that smacks of bad faith and bullying behaviour.

I hope Ofcom come down hard on UKTV. They will, if they have any backbone. VM is right to hold its head up above this and just re-state its position.

There was a lot of annoyance caused by the withdrawal of the Sky basic channels that's true, but cable had fewer customers then and it was handled in a much more sensitive manner by the previous owners of VM.

As a result this has escalated into something far more serious than anybody could have imagined. From a holistic point of view with regards to the whole business, VM must surely regret this ever happening.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that VM are in the right with regards to the dispute.
With Ofcom involvement, extensive negative media attention, costs to the company far exceeding what they had hoped to save, their customer contracts being the subject of unprecedented scrutiny by legal bods and 43% of customers either leaving or considering leaving their TV service (and possibly leaving BB and telephony too because of the financial incentives for taking all services from the same provider) at the end of their contract or with 30 days notice, their other channel suppliers and competitors seizing upon the opportunity to take advantage of the situation, i'm sure that they would never have gone down this road if they could have seen into the future.

Management have boxed themselves into a corner and are allowing their own pride to continue with their stance and as a result the whole business is likely to suffer greatly. I'm really surprised that John Malone hasn't become personally involved as he's known for being straight talking and hands on.

In essence, in business, the correct thing to do isn't always the right thing to do.

VM certainly are rocking the boat at this sensitive time, namely by now threatening to auction off the UKTV EPG slots! They have also repeatedly claimed that they are in continued talks with UKTV, but UKTV have repeatedly denied this. During one news interview with both parties the UKTV spokesman said that an offer had been put to VM via email, but no response had been received. Bouchier all but called the UKTV spokesman a liar live on air!

This whole episode is one of the most unprofessional and immature corporate incidents that I have ever witnessed.

---------- Post added at 22:36 ---------- Previous post was at 22:24 ----------

Originally Posted by spankysmagicpian

I've priced up Sky and even with offers, I'd be paying £71 and that's without landline, BB or BT sport. Factor in landline and BB from Sky (max 71Mbs) and I'm up to £99 a month without BT Sport. I'm paying Virgin £100 a month for the VIP with 2 x V6.

I won't miss UKTV that much.

I suppose it all depends on whether you actually watched UKTV or not and what other services you have as to whether each company is cheaper or not. I, for example, wouldn't factor in the BT Sport cost if going to another provider as I never watch it.

---------- Post added at 22:37 ---------- Previous post was at 22:36 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I've just set my recordings for next week. There was nothing on the UKTV channels worth recording. I shan't miss them either.

I'm now missing seven series. I'm keeping a record as, even though they no longer appear in Planned Recordings, the missing programmes show up in Recording Hiccups.

---------- Post added at 22:43 ---------- Previous post was at 22:37 ----------

Originally Posted by Paul M

I did notice this in the Yorkshire Post article ;



Which seems like a bonus to me, not an issue

Paul, when you moved your TV service over to Sky, but kept VM for B&B, did you find a noticeable difference in the total cost once you lost the triple play discounts?

Don't Sky customers get free basic BB (tho I suppose this wouldn't be adequate for someone running a forum)?

As VM is better for BB and Sky better for TV, I can see many others doing the same as yourself if the free Sky BB doesn't meet their needs. For someone like myself who doesn't need the constant 'free' speed upgrades from VM, a lower speed wouldn't be a problem for me.

[Dingbat]

One thing I’m noticing at this precise moment is that the picture quality on Freesports (ch 130) over my 200meg connection is broadly what I used to get when streaming video over a 56kb dial-up connection.

And this is supposed to be an exciting brand new channel?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by telegramsam

Not sure if you can get a free mini Q box still,when I switched to Sky I got a free mini Q box for free.

Yes. Like Virgin Media want to get the free UKTV channels for free!

---------- Post added at 01:24 ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 ----------

Originally Posted by japitts

Ok there's some merit in that argument, with a couple of provisos..

1: VM claiming the new channels are replacements, they're nothing of the sort and they know it.

2: "We will take the free channels but they're stopping us". Anyone who wants any of them back, wants the lot back. VM's position here smacks of opportunism.

3: UKTV claiming no contact from VM - I'd expect to see both parties not only talking behind closed doors, but putting out at least a semblance of a unified "we're both trying" approach.

Maybe UKTV are in denial over the value of their product - but the PR storm would seem to suggest VM may have underestimated this a wee tad...

1. I have not claimed that the new channels are replacements. I am not Virgin Media!

2. That may be so, but getting the free channels back on VM concentrates the minds of the negotiators on the price to be paid for the premium channels.

3. Frankly, we don't know. If Virgin have made their position clear and UKTV won't give way, there is nothing to discuss.

I think UKTV will start feeling the pinch sooner rather than later.

---------- Post added at 01:34 ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 ----------

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

There was a lot of annoyance caused by the withdrawal of the Sky basic channels that's true, but cable had fewer customers then and it was handled in a much more sensitive manner by the previous owners of VM.

As a result this has escalated into something far more serious than anybody could have imagined. From a holistic point of view with regards to the whole business, VM must surely regret this ever happening.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that VM are in the right with regards to the dispute.
With Ofcom involvement, extensive negative media attention, costs to the company far exceeding what they had hoped to save, their customer contracts being the subject of unprecedented scrutiny by legal bods and 43% of customers either leaving or considering leaving their TV service (and possibly leaving BB and telephony too because of the financial incentives for taking all services from the same provider) at the end of their contract or with 30 days notice, their other channel suppliers and competitors seizing upon the opportunity to take advantage of the situation, i'm sure that they would never have gone down this road if they could have seen into the future.

Management have boxed themselves into a corner and are allowing their own pride to continue with their stance and as a result the whole business is likely to suffer greatly. I'm really surprised that John Malone hasn't become personally involved as he's known for being straight talking and hands on.

In essence, in business, the correct thing to do isn't always the right thing to do.

VM certainly are rocking the boat at this sensitive time, namely by now threatening to auction off the UKTV EPG slots! They have also repeatedly claimed that they are in continued talks with UKTV, but UKTV have repeatedly denied this. During one news interview with both parties the UKTV spokesman said that an offer had been put to VM via email, but no response had been received. Bouchier all but called the UKTV spokesman a liar live on air!

This whole episode is one of the most unprofessional and immature corporate incidents that I have ever witnessed.

Not so. One cannot help but believe that the only reason you are so cock-a-hoop about all this is that you can claim compensation. You are beside yourself with the idea that the ITV channels may disappear too!

Your previous posts reveal indisputably that you will claim compensation for any loss of service, whether or not it affects you materially. This is no different.

If Sky are so great, why not go over to them? Your experience may prove rather different from what you expect, I fear.

Speaking personally, I am rather pleased that VM are finally making a stand on this. Being reliant on the content of others, this is the little guy standing up to the big guys.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Yes. Like Virgin Media want to get the free UKTV channels for free!

---------- Post added at 01:24 ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 ----------



1. I have not claimed that the new channels are replacements. I am not Virgin Media!

2. That may be so, but getting the free channels back on VM concentrates the minds of the negotiators on the price to be paid for the premium channels.

3. Frankly, we don't know. If Virgin have made their position clear and UKTV won't give way, there is nothing to discuss.

I think UKTV will start feeling the pinch sooner rather than later.

---------- Post added at 01:34 ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 ----------



Not so. One cannot help but believe that the only reason you are so cock-a-hoop about all this is that you can claim compensation. You are beside yourself with the idea that the ITV channels may disappear too!

Your previous posts reveal indisputably that you will claim compensation for any loss of service, whether or not it affects you materially. This is no different.

If Sky are so great, why not go over to them? Your experience may prove rather different from what you expect, I fear.

I am not pleased about the situation, what a ridiculous thing to say. I would much rather have the channels that I want to watch than the £3 a month discount for 6 months.

I will not be receiving any net compensation at all as I will have to subscribe to a service costing £7.99 A month- do the maths. In addition, despite paying extra, I will not be able to record the programmes, nor watch them via VOD. I will have to try and watch the programmes when they actually air, it will be like going back to the mid 1970's before I got a VCR!

Your second paragraph is simply too ludicrous to respond to.

As previously explained, VM are tying me into a contract under threat of early exit fees. Until the matter of whether this contract is fair or not has been ruled upon, like many others, I am either stuck with them or will have to fight them in court to claim that their contract is unfair and unenforceable.

My solicitor has advised me to hold fire as any decisions made about this by various Government bodies will be critical to any cases taken by individuals against them.

Whilst it is the case that Sky are offering to pay any early exit fees, I won't necessarily be going to them.

Moving onto ITV. I have now been advised by a contact that, whatever happens this weekend, a limited ITV service should be available on the VM network.

On cable, it is a condition of the cable licenses needed to operate such a service that they 'must carry' the PSB channels on a cost neutral basis.

However, the law was changed fairly recently because of an internet service called TV Catchup. This service argued that they could carry the PSB channels without paying anything for channels 1-5 as they should be regarded as a cable company.

The commercial broadcasters weren't happy about this as TV Catchup were making money by showing their own adverts in the breaks instead of theirs, whilst not paying anything towards their costs. It went to court and TV Catchup lost.

As a result, the Government amended a piece of legislation so as to now allow the commercial channels to levy a retransmission fee for anyone showing their channel. It was intended for the likes of TV Catchup, but it was pointed out to the Government that the broad definition of the legislation would now allow the commercial broadcasters to charge a fee to the tradition cable companies, such as VM. The Government responded by saying that they didn't think that this would happen.

ITV had other ideas and asked VM for money. When this was also pointed out to the Government, they simply said that it should be left to commercial negotiations.

So, this is why it's a grey area. On the one hand the law states that VM must carry ITV (1) SD, but if ITV don't get the retransmission fees that they are asking for, they have threatened to cut off their feed. ITV HD and all of their other channels have no such condition and are subject to normal commercial negotiations.

If the feed from ITV is cut off, VM have plans to take an unauthorised SD feed (probably ITV London) from satellite and pipe it through its cable network around the country. Their argument for being able to do this would be that they are required by law to show ITV as a condition of their licence. VM customers would be able to continue to watch ITV, but not in HD nor have acess to catch up or +1 services. Local news would be unavailable for the vast majority of the country. As far as I am aware, people in the STV area would not be affected.

Part of the can of worms opened as a result of VM no longer showing the UKTV channels is that their platform has been weakened. Other channel providers will be only too aware that VM cannot afford to lose another popular broadcaster from their platform and will use this to their full advantage.

The deal to continue carrying the Sky channels expires in May and I did think that (if the UKTV channels were still off VM), Sky would use this situation to weaken their strongest competitor, either by asking for exorbitant carriage fees or withdrawing their channels.

The situation would be much worse than the last time that Sky took their channels off cable, as this time Sky Sports would go too because it is no longer regulated. I'm not sure about the position of the Sky Cinema channels.

It looks like ITV are getting in there first...

Whether people watch UKTV or not and whether people think that VM have a case or not in the dispute is largely irrelevant now. The real damage is only just beginning.