Brexit (Old)

No it doesn't we have a plan, it's called no deal with the corrupted EU and we go on WTO terms - not an issue at all. I have said from the beginning the EU market is a shrinking one - the world is a much bigger and growing market.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Damien

If this deal is so unacceptable then people need to come up with an alternative. The goldilocks Brexit does not exit. The thing about no-concessions, better trade deal, does not exist. Even standard trade deals involve concessions. The country needs to wake up to this.

The country has woken up to this. It doesn't change a thing. The power lies with the Government and maybe Parliament.

The May plan is doomed, it would seem. Therefore we either crash out, or Parliament reverses Article 50 and we stay in the EU or Parliament calls another Referendum. The latter two are better options for the economy than crashing out, but the former delivers the Referendum.

On that basis, a second Referendum is the logical next step.

At least if we stay in the EU, we can continue pricking pins in the EU Commission and in any case we would never need to participate in ever closer union.

Oddly for a Leaver, despite my support for Brexit, I never had a problem with EU freedom of labour movement.

Originally Posted by Hugh

I’m impressed you can see the outcomes in alternate timelines...

Nothing to do with alternate timelines - you know it would be true, so stop kidding yourself.

Originally Posted by Mick

No it doesn't we have a plan, it's called no deal with the corrupted EU and we go on WTO terms - not an issue at all. I have said from the beginning the EU market is a shrinking one - the world is a much bigger and growing market.

Why would it not be an issue? It seems to me that suddenly having to have tariffs, the legal status of agreements questionable, having to suddenly have regulation bodies we do not have, customs facilities we do not have. Food and car imports could be massively hit.

The people advocating all these ideas are never the people who'll be responsible if it goes wrong. That is the big problem for May. Everyone will lecturer her on Brexit but if there is no deal and food prices sky rocket suddenly none of these people will be around and instead everyone will blame May.

[Gavin78]

Why call a 2nd referendum when the one we had was perfectly fine. It's not the will of the people its the poor execution from our Gov that doesn't have the balls to stand upto the EU.

What has basically come from the EU is once you are in our little club there is no way out and we will make it hard for you to ever leave.

What if we do go with a 2nd Referendum and the result is still the same? do we crash out there and then becuse we might as well do it now.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

There would never have been a compromise had Remain won, so forgive me if I disregard it.

In the event of a 52-48 vote in favour of Remain, a sensible government wanti re-election would have taken the narrowness of the victory on board and done something like introducing ID cards. Impossible to say.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

Why call a 2nd referendum when the one we had was perfectly fine. It's not the will of the people its the poor execution from our Gov that doesn't have the balls to stand upto the EU.

What has basically come from the EU is once you are in our little club there is no way out and we will make it hard for you to ever leave.

What if we do go with a 2nd Referendum and the result is still the same? do we crash out there and then becuse we might as well do it now.

My past posts are clear that I’m pro Brexit for reasons including yours.

But we are where we are due to the guvmin’s incompetence at best, treachery at worst. So we must look to ways of avoiding the half-Brexit now being offered to the EU. Crashing out is one option, second Referendum is the other. I would rather the people chose purely because of the mess in which we hsve been landed.

---------- Post added at 09:38 ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

In the event of a 52-48 vote in favour of Remain, a sensible government wanti re-election would have taken the narrowness of the victory on board and done something like introducing ID cards. Impossible to say.

In your scenario it would all have died down quickly and we could have gotten on with using our picador sticks on the Brussels turds.

[heero_yuy]

Since article 50 cannot be revoked remaining in the EU on our current terms is not an option.

A second referendum could possibly have 3 questions:

1. May's BINO

2. WTO rules and no concessions to the EU

3. Negotitiate to rejoin the EU on their terms for a new member: i.e. No rebates, full subservience to Brussels and having to dump the pound for the Euro.

Perm 2 of 3.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Hugh

And that’s the problem - some see disagreement, or a different viewpoint, as being shouted down.

I disagreed with your premise, I did not shout you down...

And that would be very decent of you if you didn’t employ a covert alternative to manage our disagreements you sneaky boy

Originally Posted by Kursk

And that would be very decent of you if you didn’t employ a covert alternative to manage our disagreements you sneaky boy

Why "covert"? - anyone on the forum can amend their posts, if you do it quick enough.

To set your mind at rest, here is the original and amended posts.

The Government is negotiating a deal that they think is best for the country - just because you don't agree with it, doesn't make it a subversion of democracy.

If any Remainers made a comment like that about a proposal they didn't agree with, they would (rightly) be shouted down.

The Government is negotiating a deal that they think is best for the country - just because you don't agree with it, doesn't make it a subversion of democracy.

If any Remainers made a comment like that about a proposal they didn't agree with, they would (rightly) be shouted down.

That't the problem - for some people, there can be no compromise, but the real world is based on compromise.

The difference is the added line at the end...

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Why "covert"? - anyone on the forum can amend their posts, if you do it quick enough.

To set your mind at rest, here is the original and amended posts.

The difference is the added line at the end...

...returns to obscurity

[pip08456]

Nice to see Trump has turned aroud and said whatever happens to brexit has nothing to do with him and doesn't want to get involved unlike Obama.

BREAKING: House of Commons Speaker John Bercow Temporarily Suspends Governments Brexit White Paper Session due to failure to distribute copies of White Paper to MPs in the house before session began. Considered it discourteous.

Here it is: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...european-union

BREAKING: In an interview with Sun political editor, Tom Newton Dunn, President Trump has stated he doesn’t like Theresa May’s Brexit White Paper and will kill any U.S deal post-Brexit if her plan is executed because the U.S would still be dealing with the EU.