Brexit discussion

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

Half of the country was avidly opposed to taking the challenge in the first place....

Maybe if more of them took the time to glance out of the windows in their Ivory Towers, they would have turned up to vote

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

I’d have to look into it to be sure but I suspect Ireland is outside Schengen because the U.K. is. The British Isles has a common travel area of its own, which long predates Schengen. Ireland may well desire to be within Schengen but the reality is that if they were forced to choose - and they were - then the CTA is of greater value to them. Think of it as the Brexit/Irish border issue viewed from a different angle.

The reason I raised the question was because of this article, written almost 10 years ago:

Could Ireland join Schengen?

If Eire did start to review its Schengen options, that would add another challenge to the "open" border solution.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

The reason I raised the question was because of this article, written almost 10 years ago:

Could Ireland join Schengen?

If Eire did start to review its Schengen options, that would add another challenge to the "open" border solution.

If Ireland joined Shengen, then they would be responsible for the hard border, not the UK.

---------- Post added at 18:11 ---------- Previous post was at 18:07 ----------

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

No...none of the vote to leave the EU has at all, to date.

Let's see what we can make of it, though.

You are right, the UK does not need to be in a custom's union...nobody is disputing that.

You just can't have friction-less trade with the EU then.

Your call to make.



How can you be so sure that you will get such a deal...how do you know that other nations don't just say "thanks, but no - we don't want a FTA with the UK either...we'll just go to WTO rules as well". Well?



Half of the country was avidly opposed to taking the challenge in the first place....

To be precise, it's the Government's call. It doesn't matter what I say, I don't have the power to make it happen.

You are continuing to ignore the simple fact that the EU exports more to us than we do to them. These other EU countries have already started to express disquiet with Barnier's hard line approach. Watch this space.

By the way, it was less than half the electorate that voted to remain, not half. And those that didn't vote don't care or haven't a clue.

---------- Post added at 18:14 ---------- Previous post was at 18:11 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

BREAKING: European Union Withdrawal Bill receives Royal Assent from the Queen. Brexit becomes Law.

...And they said it wouldn't happen!

Well, guess what, folks.......

[heero_yuy]

Quote from OLD BOY:


By the way, it was less than half the electorate that voted to remain, not half. And those that didn't vote don't care or haven't a clue.

Or weren't worried either way so can be allocated the same division as those that actually could be arsed to get out. The result still stands.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Or weren't worried either way so can be allocated the same division as those that actually could be arsed to get out. The result still stands.

Yeah, we leave. The EU. The Single Market. The customs union.

Right, that's that clear.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

By the way, it was less than half the electorate that voted to remain, not half. And those that didn't vote don't care or haven't a clue.

OB, you are falling into the Brexit "will of the people" trap. You well know that the percentage of the electorate who voted Leave was 37% ...

[ianch99]

Read this today in the Times:

Scan 26 Jun 2018 at 14.28.jpg

It is pretty vicious. The party that used to be the "Party of Business" seems no more. The author may have a (Murdoch) axe to grind but this is pretty accurate:

This isn't Project Fear, it's economic reality. Boris Johnson's response is to say "f*** business" -- the latest manifestation of the Brexiteers' Trumpian faux-populism

[denphone]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Read this today in the Times:

Attachment 27460

It is pretty vicious. The party that used to be the "Party of Business" seems no more. The author may have a (Murdoch) axe to grind but this is pretty accurate:

Yep l posted the link earlier with balance but as usual the usual ad nauseam straw man argument repeated itself yet again.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

OB, you are falling into the Brexit "will of the people" trap. You well know that the percentage of the electorate who voted Leave was 37% ...

I was referring, of course, to the section of the electorate who voted, as the remainder of my posts have made very clear. Why pull hairs? It doesn't make you right if you pull a pedantic fast one.

---------- Post added at 20:33 ---------- Previous post was at 20:31 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

Read this today in the Times:

Attachment 27460

It is pretty vicious. The party that used to be the "Party of Business" seems no more. The author may have a (Murdoch) axe to grind but this is pretty accurate:

He was talking about those who tell themselves that they represent business. You know, like the unions say they represent employees.

And you mustn't forget that Boris is Boris.

---------- Post added at 20:35 ---------- Previous post was at 20:33 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

Yep l posted the link earlier with balance but as usual the usual ad nauseam straw man argument repeated itself yet again.

Well, if your arguments are relying on straw for support, don't be surprised if someone effortlessly blows them down, Den.

I think Boris is almost trying to get fired. His backing off from Heathrow doesn't help either.

Originally Posted by ianch99

OB, you are falling into the Brexit "will of the people" trap. You well know that the percentage of the electorate who voted Leave was 37% ...

And you need to be kept being told when you keep bringing this incorrect assertion, that you need to stop bringing in people who were not eligible to vote or could not be arsed to vote, in your percentage calculations, it’s a false narrative.

The EU referendum vote was one of the largest Democratic processes in modern political history, the result is the will of the people, 52% to be precise, any other figure by you, is clutching at straws and is incorrect!

It is pointless to bring non-voters into the equation as they had a choice and didn't care enough to vote. I think there is a valid point about young people who've had this decision which will impact them made by older generations but I guess this is true of all elections and it's rarely a demographic that the electorate seems to care about so it's not unusual.

[jonbxx]

This was on Channel 4 last night, a briefing to the new US Ambassador to London on Brexit - https://twitter.com/davemacladd/stat...786314240?s=19. The full program is here - http://www.channel4.com/programmes/i...mand/66335-001 with that clip 21 minutes in.

Yikes!

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Mick

And you need to be kept being told when you keep bringing this incorrect assertion, that you need to stop bringing in people who were not eligible to vote or could not be arsed to vote, in your percentage calculations, it’s a false narrative.

The EU referendum vote was one of the largest Democratic processes in modern political history, the result is the will of the people, 52% to be precise, any other figure by you, is clutching at straws and is incorrect!

Fake News! Nothing incorrect here .. Brexit was decided by 37% of the electorate. The Will of (Some Of The) People

---------- Post added at 21:57 ---------- Previous post was at 21:54 ----------

Originally Posted by jonbxx

This was on Channel 4 last night, a briefing to the new US Ambassador to London on Brexit - https://twitter.com/davemacladd/stat...786314240?s=19. The full program is here - http://www.channel4.com/programmes/i...mand/66335-001 with that clip 21 minutes in.

Yikes!

Yikes indeed. A brutal assessment of the Brexit shambles by the US diplomats.

---------- Post added at 22:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:57 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

I think there is a valid point about young people who've had this decision which will impact them made by older generations but I guess this is true of all elections and it's rarely a demographic that the electorate seems to care about so it's not unusual.

You have highlighted the important aspect of this vote that sets it apart from the others. The older generation voted for their vision of the UK's future, a future that a lot of them will not see. They decided, which is their right, the future of their grandchildren but here's the rub: the people who will inherit their decision, overwhelmingly, did not want it.

It highlights a paradox: normally, throughout human evolution, parents & grandparents make decisions that will better, financially, socially, etc. their offspring. In a lot of situations, the older generations have gone without so that their offspring will have a better chance in life. In this case, the older generation have determined that the future they want (but a lot will not see) is the opposite of that the younger generation desire.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Brexit was decided by 37% of the electorate.

Yep, the 37% who felt strongly enough about it to go out and vote . . . as opposed to those who didn't bother because their masters told them 'it will never happen'

Originally Posted by ianch99

the people who will inherit their decision, overwhelmingly, did not want it.

Considering the 'younger generation' probably outnumber the 'older generation' (I've no idea what age groups you're implying), it seems obvious that the 'younger generation' did the usual thing of sitting on their arse while someone else did the work