Brexit discussion

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Incorrect.
WTO rules require a hard border if there was no agreement between the EU and a third country.
Ireland is concerned that a hard border would encourage the revival of terrorism and the EU is looking after its members' interests. The UK may have the upper hand when negotiating with Ireland but the position is reversed when the EU negotiates with the UK. Of course, the UK has yet to propose a solution for the Irish border as the cabinet is split down the middle on two impractical ideas. It will decide which of these ideas sinks the least in July.

But we are trying to get agreement with the EU! Which is why the hard border is unnecessary.

And why you seem to think that the EU has the upper hand eludes me. They export more to us than we do to them, and when the crunch comes to the crunch, the remaining EU countries will demand a deal.

.After all, they won't vote to be poorer.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

But we are trying to get agreement with the EU! Which is why the hard border is unnecessary.

And why you seem to think that the EU has the upper hand eludes me. They export more to us than we do to them, and when the crunch comes to the crunch, the remaining EU countries will demand a deal.

.After all, they won't vote to be poorer.

You talk about trade but how does an "open" border handle the movement of people from Eire to NI and then on to the Mainland? Just curious ..

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

You talk about trade but how does an "open" border handle the movement of people from Eire to NI and then on to the Mainland? Just curious ..

I think the point is that without permission to work in the UK, they won't be able to work or claim benefits of any kind. So why have border controls to deal with a non-existent problem?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I think the point is that without permission to work in the UK, they won't be able to work or claim benefits of any kind. So why have border controls to deal with a non-existent problem?

Ok, so why do we have a "border" in France and, as a result, the Jungle?

---------- Post added at 18:51 ---------- Previous post was at 18:50 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

After all, they won't vote to be poorer.

Why? After all, we did

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

The use of such language distracts from the serious nature of the debacle the Leave vote has lead to. Calling the people we are negotiating with "turds" is just pathetic. [SEPH]: No it doesn't. You just want to pick a fight.

Anyway, thinking of my view of the EU Commission, what would be a more appropriate word?

I would suggest that most of the people who voted Leave had a more adult perspective on why they voted the way they did. [SEPH]: Children wouldn't know enough to be able to describe the EU Commission as turds. It's perfectly adult..



---------- Post added at 12:08 ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 ----------



Do you ever watch Eurovision? You are not supposed to think I am, personally, the "UK Jury". It was supposed to be a joke! [SEPH]: Wasted words. Make them count. The Referendum result was LEAVE and it behoves you to make that work.

---------- Post added at 19:14 ---------- Previous post was at 19:08 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

<SNIP>


---------- Post added at 17:02 ---------- Previous post was at 16:55 ----------


<SNIP>

I was in Berlin a couple of weeks ago and after visiting the various WWII institutions, can clearly understand why they are motivated in the way they are and why they are so nervous of the rise of nationalism across Europe.

As Churchill said in 1957:



I feel he would saddened by the attitude of many in the UK ..[COLOR="Silver"]

You never did enlighten us with a reference for Churchill's alleged words. Are you going to?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Ok, so why do we have a "border" in France and, as a result, the Jungle?

---------- Post added at 18:51 ---------- Previous post was at 18:50 ----------



Why? After all, we did

We did not vote to be poorer, and nor will we be! Remember, we are talking about more trade than less, so go figure.

By the way, who’s talking about France? I thought we were talking about the Ireland/Northern Ireland border!

You are pretty messed up, man!

[Carth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Ireland is concerned that a hard border would encourage the revival of terrorism

when looking at what's gone on in the past few years, and the threats that are still out there, that one made me chuckle Andrew, thanks

[jonbxx]

Only 3500 dead and 50000 wounded. The troubles were just a bit of a laugh really

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Carth

when looking at what's gone on in the past few years, and the threats that are still out there, that one made me chuckle Andrew, thanks

Terrorism; be it the murder of young concert-goers in Manchester, Jo Cox or British and Irish citizens during The Troubles; is not something I've ever had cause to chuckle about.

[papa smurf]

Fake outrage how wonderful

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

We did not vote to be poorer, and nor will we be! Remember, we are talking about more trade than less, so go figure.

By the way, who’s talking about France? I thought we were talking about the Ireland/Northern Ireland border!

You are pretty messed up, man!

Keep up You said there is no need for a NI border to control migration so I was asking you why the need for the Calais "border". By your logic, we should not have border security in Calais, correct?

You are talking about more trade. The emphasis being on the "talking" part. You may not have voted to be poorer, however some will be still happy if they are.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Keep up You said there is no need for a NI border to control migration so I was asking you why the need for the Calais "border". By your logic, we should not have border security in Calais, correct?

You are talking about more trade. The emphasis being on the "talking" part. You may not have voted to be poorer, however some will be still happy if they are.

But the Shengen migrants are contained in France. They cannot get to Ireland.

How can more trade make us poorer?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Keep up You said there is no need for a NI border to control migration so I was asking you why the need for the Calais "border". By your logic, we should not have border security in Calais, correct?

You are talking about more trade. The emphasis being on the "talking" part. You may not have voted to be poorer, however some will be still happy if they are.

I'm pleased you asked that Calais border question ianch99.

Even those rare beasts, the pro-Brexit economists, acknowledge that we will be poorer. You may recall that Brexiter Patrick Minford said that whilst we would survive with a hard Brexit, manufacturing would be wiped out. It looks like he was onto something.

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

But the Shengen migrants are contained in France. They cannot get to Ireland.

How can more trade make us poorer?

even the main Brextremists are admitting we be poorer and Boris heard say f business because they telling the truth and more people realising vast majority of people gonna lot lot poorer

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Dave42

even the main Brextremists are admitting we be poorer and Boris heard say f business because they telling the truth and more people realising vast majority of people gonna lot lot poorer

Indeed one does not need to be Einstein to realise we are going to be poorer as even most Brexit voters fully admit that as a clear consequence of Brexit but alas OB can't take off his rose tinted political glasses to realise that Dave.