Brexit discussion

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Which happy day will that be? End of March, next year when little will change because we're in 'transition'. Or after 2 years of that (no wait, it's now 3 years transition). By that time we'll have a new govt./changed our minds/ or totally watered it down. We could have even put our reapplication to join in by then

Indeed. Watering down is what Brextremists fear and is looking increasingly likely as Brexit becomes more and more like a box-ticking exercise. Albeit one which has seen EU regulators leave the UK together with their well-paid jobs and numbers of civil service bureaucrats escalate whilst NHS funding has failed to keep up with costs.

Today's news is likely to discomfort Brextremists:

Mandarins opposed to exiting the EU 'forcing weak PM into soft Brexit'

A Cabinet source warned that Britain faced a “betrayal of Brexit” unless Theresa May reined in Sir Jeremy Heywood, the Cabinet Secretary, and Oliver Robbins, the co-ordinator of negotiations with the EU. David Jones, the former Brexit minister, said: “It’s time No 10 indicated who’s boss.”

Theresa May to hold crunch talks as pollster warns of heavy losses in council elections
The pollster in question predicted last year's surprise election result so is being taken incredibly seriously.

Theresa May will hold talks with her top team on how to head off major losses in the upcoming local elections, as one of the country’s top pollsters warned Brexit could hit Tory electoral chances. Elections expert Sir John Curtice, who predicted last year’s shock election result, said the Conservatives could lose more than half of their London boroughs in the May elections, which are being fought mostly in Labour heartlands or Remain-voting areas like the capital.

UK heading for 'dilution of Brexit', says former minister

The Conservative MP, writing in the Sunday Telegraph, said there was "a real danger" the UK will sign up to an agreement with Brussels which could "keep us in the EU in all but name".
Her comments come amid growing Tory party rifts over Brexit.

Jeremy Corbyn convenes ‘away day’ to discuss Brexit policy shift

The news suggests Labour may soon announce a major shift in policy that would see it back permanent membership of some form of customs union with the EU after Brexit – opening a potentially decisive dividing line with Theresa’s May’s increasingly fractured government.

Some prominent leavers are now realising that extending Article 50 might be better than a transition deal.

For Rees-Mogg, this sort of thing represents an unacceptable loss of sovereignty. He challenged Davis: “If on 30th March 2019, the UK is subject to the jurisdiction of the ECJ, takes new rules related to the single market and is paying into the European budget, are we not a vassal state?”

Davis replied: “If that were going to be the case in perpetuity, my answer would probably be yes, but the answer for a short time, no.”

To this, Rees-Mogg shot back: “It’s hard to think of any precedent in the world where an independent nation has taken the judgments of a foreign court as its superior and immediate law without having any judge on that court.”

He asked Davis to “be honest about it. We are de facto staying in the EU for two more years,” so “why aren’t we just extending Article 50?”

[Kursk]

Fair play to Remoan for perpetuating the Brexit discussion after their utter rout in the referendum but the cost to CF has been the loss of many contributors whose interesting views on a much more varied range of topics has been drowned out.

Well done Remoan; you've made losers of us all .

I don't think anyone, including those representing both the EU and the UK in negotiations, know what's ultimately going to happen.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't think anyone, including those representing both the EU and the UK in negotiations, know what's ultimately going to happen.

Agreed, which makes it an interesting topic.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't think anyone, including those representing both the EU and the UK in negotiations, know what's ultimately going to happen.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Agreed, which makes it an interesting topic.

Fair play to Remoan for quickly re-asserting the 'importance' of a tired, insular 'debate' with 2 essentially meaningless posts.

Sigh .

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't think anyone, including those representing both the EU and the UK in negotiations, know what's ultimately going to happen.

If it helps, there will be a lot of hot air , arguing, politicians trying to 'advance' themselves. In practice very little of any substance will end up happening. We'll be a 'ghost' EU member - still paying but having no say.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Mr K

If it helps, there will be a lot of hot air , arguing, politicians trying to 'advance' themselves. In practice very little of any substance will end up happening. We'll be a 'ghost' EU member - still paying but having no say.

Make that 3. Seriously chaps, you must be boring yourselves by now as well as closing the door on a previously vibrant forum community?

You are each interesting and intelligent posters but it's as if you're stuck in a groove of Brexit tedium.

[Gavin78]

Keep this up the EU seems to be breaking down from the standing point of all or nothing. yes it's happening slowly but we are making some headway with the EU.

Given that the recent response from Mackron that the French given the vote would probably vote frexit goes to show how weak the EU actually is.

I don't think the UK is backed into a corner I think the EU is scared and they are the ones in the corner they are using scare tactics and any means possible to try and weaken the UK stance. We all know France aren't the only country considering leaving and there are cracks all over the EU. I think EU governments are watching from the shadows to see the final outcome of this and I think the UK needs to stand strong we may have more friends than we think.

[jonbxx]

Macron also said;

But I think it is a mistake to just ask yes or no when you don’t ask people how to improve the situation and to explain how to improve it.”

He added: “You always take a risk when you ask in a referendum yes or no on a very complicated subject.”

Polling across Europe is still very much in favour of membership, even in Greece

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Polling across Europe is still very much in favour of membership, even in Greece

I'm sure it is in countries in receipt of EU largess.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

I'm sure it is in countries in receipt of EU largess.

Surely not...

Support for the EU is largely above 50% in Europe, be it net beneficiary or not:http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/15/...ble-toward-eu/

But they do also want their own votes despite that:

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Kursk

Fair play to Remoan for perpetuating the Brexit discussion after their utter rout in the referendum but the cost to CF has been the loss of many contributors whose interesting views on a much more varied range of topics has been drowned out.

Well done Remoan; you've made losers of us all .

A rout for one side or the other in the referendum would have been far more preferable to the result we got imo, would've made what followed far less messy

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

I'm sure it is in countries in receipt of EU largess.

The figures for Germany up there ^^^ suggest otherwise

Originally Posted by jonbxx

The figures for Germany up there ^^^ suggest otherwise

And Sweden, France, and the Netherlands