Brexit discussion

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

European Withdrawal Bill passes in the House of Commons. Yay: 324 to 295 No.

Now on to the Lords where it's expected to get further amendments added. Labour clearly voted against, very obvious that cretinous anti-democratic party could not be trusted to respect the referendum decision on 23rd June 2016.

Maybe they were just exercising their democratic right and representing the 48%. Hardly 'cretinous'.

Originally Posted by Mr K

Maybe they were just exercising their democratic right and representing the 48%. Hardly 'cretinous'.

52% beats 48%. Over a million majority. (Not small) There was one rule, the majority vote decided we're leaving.

A lot of Brexiteers voted for Labour in the Election last year, they had a Manifesto in which they were clearly a Brexit supporting party and yet, here they are, completely ignoring their Manifesto and voting against the Bill.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

52% beats 48%. Over a million majority. (Not small) There was one rule, the majority vote decided we're leaving.

A lot of Brexiteers voted for Labour in the Election last year, they had a Manifesto in which they were clearly a Brexit supporting party and yet, here they are, completely ignoring their Manifesto and voting against the Bill.

Labour didn't vote against it because of a binary yes or no to Brexit question. They voted against the bill it because they felt it failed to protect people's human rights.

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by Mick

European Withdrawal Bill passes in the House of Commons. Yay: 324 to 295 No.

Now on to the Lords where it's expected to get further amendments added. Labour clearly voted against, very obvious that cretinous anti-democratic party could not be trusted to respect the referendum decision on 23rd June 2016.

So there's quite a few cretinous anti-democratic MP's from other parties too?

Cheers

Dave

You have to be careful not to give the Government carte blanche on anything so long as it's connected to, or they attempt to connect to, Brexit. The vote was to leave the European Union and not to suspend Parliamentary democracy. People voting against bills in Parliament with which they disagree, especially when that is the opposition opposing the government, is literally not anti-democratic.

Anyway we've agreed to pay an extra £44 million to secure the border as Calais.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42723401

An extra £44.5m is to be spent beefing up Channel border security, the UK government is to say later.

It will be spent on fencing, CCTV and infrared detection technology in Calais and other border points.

It comes as French President Emmanuel Macron visits the UK for a summit with Theresa May.

Britain is also expected to commit to taking more migrants from Calais, especially unaccompanied children, the BBC's James Robbins said.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

So there's quite a few cretinous anti-democratic MP's from other parties too?

Cheers

Dave

Indeed there is but alas that does not quite suit their political views.

[jonbxx]

It's an interesting political point where MPs are getting pulled in three directions now;

• The referendum result
• Their parties whip
• Their constituents wishes

It really lays bare the question of who does an MP represent in Parliament? If you go fail to represent your constituents wishes, are you doing your job?

My local MP was a remain campaigner. I had a fun meeting with him and our somewhat robust Liberal Democrat leader of the local council before the vote. However, since the result, he toes the party line and is now Justice Secretary. Luckily for him, our local result matched the national one to within 1%...

[heero_yuy]

It's an interesting dilemma if an MP is staunch supporter of one cause yet their constituents voted solidly the other way. Especially if their opponents at the next election were in tune with the constituents.

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

It's an interesting dilemma if an MP is staunch supporter of one cause yet their constituents voted solidly the other way. Especially if their opponents at the next election were in tune with the constituents.

Not sure if the mapping for Brexit votes per constituency maps with the Party voting in a General/By-election. Not sure if we will ever know, as in my case, we only got results for Leeds as a whole, not by constituency.

Some die-hard Tories were Remainers, and would never vote Labour, and some die-hard Labourites voted to Leave, but would never vote Tory.

Anyhoo, I always believed that the MP should represent all of their constituency, not just the people that voted for them.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Some die-hard Tories were Remainers, and would never vote Labour, and some die-hard Labourites voted to Leave, but would never vote Tory.

True, but they might decide to stay at home instead.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Not sure if the mapping for Brexit votes per constituency maps with the Party voting in a General/By-election. Not sure if we will ever know, as in my case, we only got results for Leeds as a whole, not by constituency.

Some die-hard Tories were Remainers, and would never vote Labour, and some die-hard Labourites voted to Leave, but would never vote Tory.

Anyhoo, I always believed that the MP should represent all of their constituency, not just the people that voted for them.

Absolutely.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Not sure if the mapping for Brexit votes per constituency maps with the Party voting in a General/By-election. Not sure if we will ever know, as in my case, we only got results for Leeds as a whole, not by constituency.

Some die-hard Tories were Remainers, and would never vote Labour, and some die-hard Labourites voted to Leave, but would never vote Tory.

Anyhoo, I always believed that the MP should represent all of their constituency, not just the people that voted for them.

I have a present for you....

There are only estimates for how the vote went on a constituency level. Chris Hanretty, Professor of Politics at Royal Holloway has been working on this for some time. The data is here - https://app.polimapper.co.uk/?dataSe...38ea0461832a#_ You can look up your constituency and see the estimated vote..

He talks about methods and error here - https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/fi...p-5490b6cab878

He asked nicely if his paper could be cited when using his data so here we go - “Areal interpolation and the UK’s referendum on EU membership”, Chris Hanretty, Journal Of Elections, Public Opinion And Parties, Online Early Access, http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/17457289.2017.1287081

Originally Posted by Damien

You have to be careful not to give the Government carte blanche on anything so long as it's connected to, or they attempt to connect to, Brexit. The vote was to leave the European Union and not to suspend Parliamentary democracy. People voting against bills in Parliament with which they disagree, especially when that is the opposition opposing the government, is literally not anti-democratic.

Anyway we've agreed to pay an extra £44 million to secure the border as Calais.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42723401

Those economic migrants are on French soil, it's France's problem, not ours. They have traveled through several European countries, all decent enough to live in and claim asylum.

I beg to differ on the anti-democratic part. They voted against the bill to oppose the process of leaving, yet more delay tactics to thwart the result, they are ignoring their key Manifesto policy of 'Accepting the referendum result', that they and their Momentum cohorts were only too happy to brag about before the snap election, I remember it well, waving it and bragging about it, "Read the manifesto, it's brill." and they cannot even stick to it, same old pathetic Labour.

Originally Posted by Mick

Those economic migrants are on French soil, it's France's problem, not ours. They have traveled through several European countries, all decent enough to live in and claim asylum.

They are on French soil but they're heading to British soil and the reason they don't is because we get to have the border at Calais and not Dover.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

They are on French soil but they're heading to British soil and the reason they don't is because we get to have the border at Calais and not Dover.

That's apart from the thousands who do get through every year via places like Calais of course.